NOTE

The video cut out when we had about 35 mins left in the interview (because of course it did, why wouldn’t it while we talk about last year?) so you will see it switch to audiogram at that point. That was some of the best content so don’t miss it.

Below you will see the entire transcript and if you want to just listen to the audio you should be able to access that in the podcast section.

TRANSCRIPT


[00:00:00] Paige : So I don’t wanna say welcome to Pay to Exist ‘cause this doesn’t technically belong under pay to exist. This is a part two from part one where I talked about the, I don’t wanna say the year from hell.

[00:00:13] Donny: It was a pretty good year in terms of a lot of it.

[00:00:16] Paige : Yeah, there’s things we could definitely pick out that we loved about it. There’s a lot of growth, but it’s, it was basically the south node in Virgo destroying my life as I know it. But I love it. I love a good transformation. And so in the first part, I discussed my perspective of every single month, every single blow in the year of the snake.

[00:00:40] Paige : And I had a lot to say about how I felt and hi his, and I had my perspective, and I thought it would only be fair and probably just really interesting. To ask him his perspective on these things. And so just so everybody knows, this is Donnie. This is my husband, [00:01:00] and in the first substack, I actually didn’t go into how I met him.

[00:01:04] Paige : Do you? Or like our past? Do you wanna?

[00:01:04] Donny: Yeah, absolutely. So I am four years older than you. I don’t know. You

[00:01:08] Paige : a mathematician? Yeah, something like that. 30. And you are 42.

[00:01:12] Donny: Yeah. So four years older. I had been living in Columbus for a couple of years at this point.

[00:01:18] Paige : Honestly, I had no idea you’re in school,

[00:01:20] Donny: it was pretty on and off. What school? Columbus State and Ohio State.

[00:01:24] Paige : Columbus State too.

[00:01:24] Donny: Yeah, same path, same. But yeah, I was working as a line cook at Roosters on Olen, Tangie River Road for any Columbus sites in the audience here. Paige started as a hostess and endeared herself to our tight-knit group pretty quickly.

[00:01:42] Donny: I don’t know what it was about Paige, but I very much just felt drawn to her energy in a incredibly platonic way actually. Big brother Energy is how I felt towards her. I was always looking out for her, trying to keep her out of trouble, which was [00:02:00] a full-time job, especially when I’m trying to keep myself out of trouble at the same time.

[00:02:04] Paige : Didn’t do a great job.

[00:02:05] Donny: No. But yeah we became very close. We lived together on a couple different occasions. I ended up at family functions at her house. Knew her whole family was very close with her whole family. So yeah, that’s how we started

[00:02:19] Paige : know each other.

[00:02:20] Paige : 20

[00:02:20] Donny: years ago

[00:02:21] Paige : 17 maybe. I’m

[00:02:22] Donny: not a mathematician. I’m

[00:02:22] Paige : only 22, so I don’t know how that’s possible.

[00:02:26] Donny: Yeah. That math doesn’t. Math does it.

[00:02:28] Paige : And so we went our separate ways. When I was like 22 or 23 and we didn’t speak for that long. You had your things going on and I had my things we went through I’d say we both were in pretty dark places at the exact same time.

[00:02:46] Paige : Our own separate addictions that just, we were so engulfed in those that we weren’t speaking, nothing happened.

[00:02:55] Paige : And then I got married

[00:02:56] Donny: and then I got married

[00:02:58] Paige : and then what happened?

[00:02:59] Donny: [00:03:00] It was a couple of days before Christmas.

[00:03:03] Paige : No, September.

[00:03:05] Donny: Was it slid?

[00:03:06] Paige : No, you slid in.

[00:03:07] Donny: Oh, that’s right. It was that far before. So yeah a memory popped up on my Facebook. It was a picture of Paige and I from 16, 17 years prior. And I don’t really know what possessed me, because obviously your memories pop up every year. So I had seen it for 17, 16, 16 or 17 times.

[00:03:30] Donny: And while I saw Paige’s stuff on social media, it’s not like I really knew what was going on in her life. So I just, something possessed me to send that to her and just say, something to the effect of, Hey, saw this miss you, hope you’re doing well. And that was that we said

[00:03:50] Paige : we would connect in December.

[00:03:54] Paige : We said we would connect once you got back. ‘cause you were traveling a lot for work. Yes. And I had just moved to the river house [00:04:00] and I was actually celebrating moving to the house and I got a bottle of Andre and I was fucked up on Andre. Really drunk and as Andre does. Yeah. Andre do.

[00:04:12] Paige : And so I, I messaged Donnie, just, circling back like we said we would

[00:04:19] Donny: A series of voice messages that I then the next morning opened and listened to and I’m pretty sure my response was, did you send these to the right person?

[00:04:33] Paige : Yeah. And I woke up and I didn’t remember sending them.

[00:04:38] Paige : So then I listened to them and I was like, oh yeah. Yeah. Sure.

[00:04:43] Donny: Yeah. It was

[00:04:43] Paige : you,

[00:04:43] Donny: There was just a lot of, oh, I love yous. And while that’s not out of the norm of when we were friends 17 years prior to that and

[00:04:52] Paige : just me on alcohol, like it, it opens my heart.

[00:04:54] Paige : It’s a heart opener for me. It’s a chakra opener for me and multiple chakras. [00:05:00] And so I wasn’t, yeah, it’s not outside the realm of possibility for me to be telling you that I

[00:05:05] Donny: No, but for us who had literally talked one time in 17 years and it was through dms, I just was like, I don’t think she meant to send this to me.

[00:05:16] Paige : I confirmed that I did. And then you were like trying to come down immediately to hang out. Yep. And you did. You drove what, the two hour trip? We went out to eat and then it was just like obvious that we were probably more than friends.

[00:05:30] Donny: Yeah. It happened pretty quickly.

[00:05:33] Donny: The next morning just hanging out, joking around, having a good time being hung over together. That’s when it really solidified it for me. And, we started talking about things, the mems it felt the same as it did when we were younger, but the realization that I was coming to was simply that when we were younger, I had a misapprehension of what love actually was.

[00:05:56] Donny: And I equated it mostly to lust.

[00:05:58] Paige : Yeah.

[00:05:59] Donny: And because at [00:06:00] that time I wasn’t like lustful towards you.

[00:06:03] Paige : Yeah. And I didn’t, and I thought that if a man wasn’t lustful towards me, that he couldn’t love me. Yep. So that’s why I was always lusty.

[00:06:11] Donny: Yeah. Having that realization of, okay, like I’ve actually always been in love with Paige.

[00:06:18] Donny: I just misinterpreted what love was when I was younger.

[00:06:21] Paige : Yeah. We got there pretty quickly.

[00:06:24] Donny: Yeah. I would say pretty quickly might be an understatement, but, and so

[00:06:28] Paige : in the article, in the, I don’t keep calling it an article in the Substack, I discussed how it, we literally only had sex twice at two, two times.

[00:06:36] Paige : Like two nights. Probably not once or twice. The second time we connected biblically is how I said it. And I don’t think you love that. I don’t think you read the sub. I love that. And then I was pregnant and so you were in Ireland.

[00:06:53] Donny: Yes, I was in Belfast, Ireland for work.

[00:06:56] Donny: So obviously we’re on different time [00:07:00] zones, I’m running around trying to transform one of the businesses within our parent corporation and running around with somebody who is one of my mentors still to this day. And yeah, get the text from Paige that we’re pregnant and

[00:07:17] Paige : BTW

[00:07:18] Donny: It was a showstopper that was quickly followed with a couple of pints of Guinness as you do in Ireland.

[00:07:24] Donny: And I think my mentor who I was there with noticed that I had read a text message and then became a little off.

[00:07:32] Paige : What were you thinking when you got it?

[00:07:34] Donny: So it was a very weird combination of emotions because I of course thought at 41 years old that was not gonna be in the cards for me.

[00:07:46] Donny: I had been a stepfather for my first marriage where my stepdaughter did not ever meet. Her biological father had no desire to, so I had played dad.

[00:07:56] Paige : Yep.

[00:07:56] Donny: That role in her life,

[00:07:58] Paige : like fully

[00:07:59] Donny: A hundred percent. She [00:08:00] was with us all the time. Yep. There was no other male influence in her life in that way.

[00:08:06] Donny: So there was never any fear. The only fear was that as somebody who is strong enough in themselves to admit this, I was very well aware that I had out kicked my coverage. And so my fear was that you would come to that realization at some point as well. Yeah. And then I would just be a single father.

[00:08:27] Paige : Because I think that became even more scary or real for you later, like even more real for you later on. Yes. So that was a fear that you might, that I would figure out that

[00:08:40] Donny: yeah. I’ll kick

[00:08:41] Paige : your coverage. That

[00:08:41] Donny: I’m just some vaga, I’m just some vagabond who, got lucky and

[00:08:45] Paige : Okay. So we get pregnant, we found out we’re pregnant. We’re like, okay, we’re pregnant. It’s so funny how it all happened. I decide, I don’t know. I wasn’t even gonna be your girlfriend.

[00:08:55] Donny: No. Because you’re, that’s not your thing.

[00:08:57] Paige : And which

[00:08:58] Donny: freaked me out too.

[00:08:59] Paige : So you [00:09:00] this point, but you still were like, whatever I gotta do.

[00:09:03] Paige : At this point I’ve decided, okay, I will, now that I’m pregnant, sure. We can be exclusive. Yeah.

[00:09:10] Paige : So was it by accident? I dunno, I wouldn’t, it’s a very Scorpio rising of you. I, and so then I basically, I don’t know, we had, I, the marriage was a conversation. It wasn’t.

[00:09:24] Donny: Yeah. And it’s funny that you actually are the one who brought this to my attention that there was even this other line of thinking around marriage.

[00:09:34] Donny: Like we both knew that we loved each other. So the love was never a question, but the way you presented marriage to me as like a business partnership.

[00:09:43] Paige : Yeah.

[00:09:44] Donny: At first I was obviously very standoffish to that idea. Yeah. Because that’s not what you hear growing up. You hear or I look at my parents who just celebrated their 52nd wedding anniversary, but it’s

[00:09:56] Paige : always been that.

[00:09:57] Donny: Exactly. But you don’t read that in [00:10:00] fairytales. I know. You don’t hear about finding my business partner who I happen to love.

[00:10:05] Paige : Yeah.

[00:10:06] Donny: So that was a very weird thing. But then when you take a step back from the situation that you are in and you actually start to think about the way that you described it.

[00:10:15] Donny: It just makes sense. Like it’s just like any other merging of businesses. It’s the same exact thing. You still both have your autonomy. You obviously see something in each other that draws you to one another. But why would you, if you are a successful business, tie yourself to a failing business?

[00:10:35] Paige : Exactly.

[00:10:35] Donny: Whether you love that business or not, why would you tie yourself to that? It makes no sense. So once I was able to take a step back and remove myself from what you were saying and look at it from a logical standpoint, I was like, oh yeah, that totally checks out.

[00:10:52] Paige : Yeah. So are you saying it was my idea?

[00:10:54] Donny: Of course it was your idea.

[00:10:55] Paige : I don’t even remember the conversation. I just knew that [00:11:00] marriage is, to me, when it comes to babies, is a protection mechanism. And that it’s much it’s just you have more protection legally. When you are married, your rights are much more cut and dry when you are married.

[00:11:15] Paige : Even if we got separated, it would just be very clear. And I knew for a fact that I wanted that and, but I would never in, I would never invest in a business or tie myself to a business that I didn’t believe in, that I thought would be give me an ROI long term. Yeah.

[00:11:33] Donny: And let’s not sit here and act like we’re making it out.

[00:11:35] Donny: No, it was, this was more than just this one conversation. But I, I think we very much on multiple occasions talked about the fact of let’s not just get married because we’re pregnant. If we’re getting married, let’s do it for the reason of, one, it being strategically smart for both of us.

[00:11:52] Donny: Two, it being strategically smart for the baby that we’re gonna be having. And three, like I said, we already knew that the love was there. We [00:12:00] wouldn’t have, we wouldn’t be. There’s a foundation.

[00:12:01] Paige : I knew your character. It’s not like I would marry a stranger that I just met. No. If that’s not really my way.

[00:12:07] Paige : But speaking of that, do you remember, and I talked a little bit about this in the article, do you remember the conversation on the couch? I think it was the third and I was freaking out.

[00:12:17] Speaker 3: I

[00:12:17] Paige : was like trying to not get out, but I was trying to, I was trying to like, create a loophole in the contract and be like, now I just need to know that if I change my mind.

[00:12:27] Donny: You were coming up with all the reasons that. If it didn’t work or why we maybe shouldn’t do this, or, this and that. And I think that’s understandable because of the speed with which everything was moved.

[00:12:42] Paige : Yeah. I was freaking out. Yeah. I was very, I was overwhelmed by how quickly everything was going and I wanted to be able to know that I could come to you and say, I don’t know that I, this is right.

[00:12:55] Paige : Yeah. And it wouldn’t blow us up.

[00:12:57] Donny: And as out of the [00:13:00] norm as it is for me in a situation like this, I was actually the more calm, cool, collected no, it’s gonna be fine.

[00:13:07] Paige : You think that’s out of the norm. You don’t think that you’re usually the one that’s

[00:13:08] Donny: But no, I guess I mean it in the sense of once I made the decision, I just didn’t question it. There was no longer a question in my mind of Right. That is clear. Is this the right decision? It was okay. We made the decision that this is how we’re going to move forward and I never questioned it

[00:13:27] Paige : Yeah. That is not usually like me to question and doubt my own decisions, but I hadn’t really decided yet. And that’s what we’re talking about.

[00:13:34] Donny: I’m aware that’s

[00:13:35] Paige : what we, I talked about in that, that substack. ‘cause I hadn’t really decided yet if this was something I wanted to do, if there was no baby.

[00:13:42] Paige : Speaking of there not being a baby, we were supposed to get married on the third.

[00:13:46] Paige : We had this conversation. We went to go get the, see the ultrasound and I talk about looking at the screen and not, and it’s like huge. It’s 4K. It’s massive. That I, I don’t know if you felt me [00:14:00] shut down in that room as soon as I just laid down.

[00:14:03] Paige : ‘cause I couldn’t look at you. I couldn’t talk because I. Was so afraid of letting you down and it was gonna be in 4K.

[00:14:12] Donny: Yeah. And I could tell because I think at that point, neither of us wanted to admit it, but I think we both knew what had happened.

[00:14:20] Paige : Yeah.

[00:14:21] Donny: I think we, I don’t really know how we both knew.

[00:14:24] Donny: But I think we were both, we could still

[00:14:25] Paige : feel like it was,

[00:14:26] Donny: we were both on that way. Maybe that’s why

[00:14:27] Paige : I was so doubtful. ‘cause I knew on some level that maybe there wasn’t a baby.

[00:14:32] Donny: Yeah. And that would make sense. I think that I was in a different mindset than you because I had made it blatantly clear that the baby wasn’t right.

[00:14:46] Donny: The impetus of my decision. And

[00:14:48] Paige : for me, I wasn’t sure that it wasn’t

[00:14:50] Donny: 100%. To say anything other than that was an absolute gut punch would be an absolute lie. That [00:15:00] hurt. Like very few things in my life have hurt before, but I still even at that point never questioned. I thought it was fair that you questioned it, but I never questioned the marriage still happening.

[00:15:17] Paige : Do you remember when I went you went on that walk? Yes. It was a very long walk. I was afraid you had gotten run over.

[00:15:24] Donny: Listen to a whole fish show.

[00:15:25] Paige : Yeah. So my question is, what was going through your mind on that walk?

[00:15:29] Donny: What was going through that mind? What was going through that mind?

[00:15:32] Donny: What was going through my mind on that walk was, while I know this hurts for me

[00:15:38] Donny: I also know that like I’m not going through what she’s going through hormonally, what she’s going through emotionally. What she is feeling. So how can I best show back up, put my feelings about this aside and be there to support her?

[00:15:56] Paige : Yeah. And you did, and you supported me. And I actually said in the [00:16:00] substack that because of how you handled it, that is what made me Sure. So you must have maybe deep down known, if I don’t handle this correctly. So that is why we made the decision the next day to actually go get married.

[00:16:17] Paige : When, by the way, if you have to read the Substack, we didn’t actually know that there was a baby. It was just not, the doctors were saying maybe you’re not as far as long as you think you are dah. And the HT C levels were still going up, but I think we both knew that it wasn’t happening.

[00:16:34] Paige : And so to decide, okay, I’m doing this anyway. Which again, I don’t think I even, I think I decided, but I still don’t think I was fully decided until yeah,

[00:16:45] Donny: I don’t think so either. But it made me more

[00:16:47] Paige : decided.

[00:16:48] Donny: Yeah. Like just, dude, it’s so stress free and oh yeah, it was fun. We had

[00:16:52] Paige : such a good day.

[00:16:53] Donny: Had a great time doing it. The mayor of the little town that we live in is the one who married us and she was

[00:16:59] Paige : so cool. [00:17:00] Yeah. The vows were easy for me to say yes to. ‘cause they were not like told death do us

[00:17:04] Donny: part.

[00:17:04] Donny: Yeah. Yeah. So it was a very cool experience. Then we went and had a really nice lunch afterwards and we had a

[00:17:09] Paige : really good dinner. Yeah. It was, that was the same day you were like, I’m feeling veil today. Yes, it was.

[00:17:15] Donny: I absolutely,

[00:17:16] Paige : oh, it was a, that was a very, have you felt veal since that day?

[00:17:21] Paige : As veal?

[00:17:21] Donny: As veal? I don’t know, but yeah. You bring out the virility in me sometimes.

[00:17:23] Paige : That’s funny. Okay, so how did you feel. When like I decided essentially that we would still do this,

[00:17:32] Donny: I was obviously elated because I had already decided that I still wanted to.

[00:17:36] Donny: I’m a very confident person.

[00:17:38] Paige : Yeah.

[00:17:39] Donny: I still, when it comes to you, and it’s in my own brain and, some of my friends don’t help my cause too much with it. But still just, it’s always in the back of my head that I’ve out kicked my coverage.

[00:17:51] Paige : Yeah.

[00:17:51] Donny: Even though I had made the decision that was gonna have no bearing on things it was still very questionable in my mind. And it was, I don’t [00:18:00] wanna say waiting for the other shoe to drop, but just assuming that there was gonna come a time where you were gonna be like. Who is this guy?

[00:18:07] Paige : Yeah. What, what am doing here? What did I do? What did I do? Yeah.

[00:18:11] Paige : Okay. So we made it through January, February. The baby is no more. I go through that process and then in March I had my retreat. I have some ladies over to the house for the retreat. You’re cooking for us. ‘cause you are a culinary school dropout.

[00:18:28] Paige : Yes. That still really loves to cook and is really great at it. And so I hired you essentially.

[00:18:35] Donny: Cook.

[00:18:35] Paige : So you’re cooking all weekend, but you’re like essentially staying out the way but then we were having drinks that night

[00:18:41] Donny: and I can’t turn down good drink in a good time with you’re my people.

[00:18:46] Paige : Yeah. You’re the party. If there’s a drink

[00:18:48] Donny: I like being the facilitator of

[00:18:49] Paige : fun. Yes. Yes. And you are. Yes. And we’re having fun. We decided to go to bed early ‘cause we had some things going on the next day. And then you come in to tell me that [00:19:00] essentially you think you’re having, you’re pretty sure you’re having a heart attack.

[00:19:03] Paige : You’re like I didn’t even, you weren’t even uncertain?

[00:19:06] Donny: No, because it was such a different feeling. And what’s crazy about it is it was so stereotypical of what they tell you, you will feel if you have a heart attack.

[00:19:18] Paige : The left arm.

[00:19:18] Donny: Yep. My, my left. It was, and it wasn’t just my arm, my whole left side was pins and needles.

[00:19:23] Donny: Shortness of breath just cold sweat and just,

[00:19:28] Paige : and he vomited too. I heard it and I was like, that’s not,

[00:19:31] Donny: And honestly just felt like somebody with a massive knife just stabbing me repeatedly in the chest.

[00:19:37] Paige : So what’s going through your head at you’re 41 and you’re, how can you, like what you’re 41 having a heart attack.

[00:19:43] Paige : What is going through your mind?

[00:19:44] Donny: The first thought that went through my mind, and this is gonna sound like it’s silly, but it’s honestly what went through my mind is, oh, this is what everybody was saying when they said, you need to slow down.

[00:19:56] Paige : Yeah.

[00:19:57] Donny: Because I’ll be the first one to tell you, [00:20:00] and you know very well, probably more than most people, how much I do not take care of myself.

[00:20:05] Donny: I like to party, I like to have a good time. I like to, when I go on a weekend with the guys. We’re cut and loose. And the best word to describe it would be Bender.

[00:20:19] Paige : Yeah.

[00:20:19] Donny: And that’s just how we operate

[00:20:20] Paige : chaos container.

[00:20:21] Donny: A hundred percent. It was one of those things where it’s like you just, you always have it in your mind that you’re invincible until you’re not.

[00:20:29] Donny: And then it all hits hard.

[00:20:32] Donny: And the drive to the hospital, I don’t think I said much out loud,

[00:20:38] Paige : you didn’t,

[00:20:39] Donny: but it was nonstop in my mind. You just got married, you’ve found this new happiness that has been this great thing, and now you’re gonna fucking die. And there was little doubt in my mind that I was going to in my mind it was that this is how it ends.

[00:20:58] Paige : Which is so funny [00:21:00] because in the Substack I talk about how I never had a doubt in my mind that this was gonna be best case scenario.

[00:21:05] Donny: Did not for, I was like. Here’s where all the booze and cocaine catches up with

[00:21:09] Paige : me. No, because I said absolutely not.

[00:21:12] Paige : That’s how I talk to God. I’m very demanding. Yeah. I’m like, no.

[00:21:15] Speaker 3: Yeah,

[00:21:16] Paige : absolutely not. We just got married. We’re doing this. You’re not dying. Yep. I was like, I, and I like, I’m not gonna be a widow. This is insane. I was like, absolutely not. And so I didn’t entertain it for one second.

[00:21:32] Paige : Which is so funny to hear you say you really thought you were dying

[00:21:34] Donny: a hundred percent. There was zero doubt in my mind on that drive to the hospital that like, these are the last moments of my life. That’s why I was I don’t know, what do you, what the hell do you say when you think you’re gonna die?

[00:21:46] Donny: Like

[00:21:46] Paige : you were very quiet and somber.

[00:21:48] Donny: You see it in movies and people are like going on these epic monologues of oh, I love you so much and I’m so sorry and blah, blah, blah. What the hell

[00:21:56] Paige : Do you think it would’ve been worth it?

[00:21:57] Paige : You’d have been like, do you think he like lived a [00:22:00] life? Is there anything you think that you would’ve been like, man, I wish I could have done this thing.

[00:22:04] Donny: Spent more time with you, but no,

[00:22:07] Paige : you had a very full life.

[00:22:08] Donny: And it’s funny, I don’t think about it that way.

[00:22:10] Donny: Yeah. It’s just the life that I’ve lived. So the assumption in my head is that everybody lives like crazy out there, does all this wild shit follows bands on tour and just

[00:22:21] Paige : Hitchhikes in California.

[00:22:23] Donny: Just drops everything and goes to South America for a month. Yeah. And it’s not until I start, like I meet new people.

[00:22:29] Donny: And I start telling stories like, when I started this job. Yeah. Like things would come up where I’d be like, oh yeah, this one time I did blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And they’re like, huh.

[00:22:39] Paige : Yeah.

[00:22:39] Donny: Where it’s yeah. At the time, no, of course. I still wanna do this and I still wanna do this and I still wanna do this.

[00:22:45] Donny: But, in retrospect I have lived a pretty full life.

[00:22:49] Paige : Yeah. It was a really full life. I’m not saying like you should go tomorrow or anything, but No.

[00:22:54] Donny: But at the time that’s the furthest thought from your mind is anything that you’ve done in the past or [00:23:00] and I. I’m one of those people that I didn’t regret is the biggest waste of time on the planet.

[00:23:05] Paige : Yeah, same.

[00:23:05] Donny: So like even all the mistakes that I’ve made, getting arrested, getting hooked on drugs, all these things that I’ve gone through and overcome, like I don’t regret any of it. All of it shaped me in some way, shape or form to where I’m at now. And I’m sitting here, your husband, we’ve got your two kids, we’ve got Aurora on the way.

[00:23:24] Donny: I’m the COO of a company. Yeah. Things are going fine. You know what’s there to regret,

[00:23:29] Paige : So you. Obviously, best case scenario did happen. There was no heart damage.

[00:23:36] Donny: And that is such a me thing to have happen to. I’ve, I have squeaked by in so many situations that would end other people’s, if not their lives their social life.

[00:23:48] Donny: And somehow I always come outta all of this shit unscathed.

[00:23:51] Paige : Yeah, very few heroin addicts end up COOs of a company.

[00:23:55] Donny: It’s a very valid point,

[00:23:56] Paige : like later on in life. Not that you’re like, would you consider [00:24:00] yourself, would you, how do you consider yourself?

[00:24:00] Paige : You would, could you, would you consider yourself a recovered or recovering or a what is that

[00:24:00] Donny: when it comes to heroin and opioids? I will always be an addict.

[00:24:06] Paige : Yeah.

[00:24:06] Donny: But that’s the thing. I’m a weird case in that regard, in that, if I have five drinks, the thought of wanting to do that is nowhere in my mind.

[00:24:17] Donny: And a lot of people aren’t that way. It’s one thing leads you to think about the thing that you’re addicted to. Which leads you to relapse. And early on I was clean from everything.

[00:24:27] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:24:27] Donny: Then slowly but surely I would introduce, alcohol back in or weed back in. I don’t have an addictive personality. I just got addicted to one sensation. No other sensation makes me feel that sensation. Or

[00:24:41] Paige : so out of control.

[00:24:42] Donny: So I don’t draw the comparison. Now, mind you. I don’t party like I used to.

[00:24:48] Donny: I’m not getting obliterated and blacked out. When I drink now it’s, I have enough drinks to take the edge off. And that’s it. So if I were to still be partying like I was in my late [00:25:00] twenties, maybe there would be a problem. But no I stay away from, if I’d go to the doctor for something and they offer Percocet or Vicodin, and I tell ‘em, no, give me Tylenol, in the hospital you’re really

[00:25:11] Paige : clear about certain things too.

[00:25:11] Paige : And I think that was a concern of mine. One in the hospital was with the pain, but then two was throughout this entire year.

[00:25:22] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:25:22] Paige : How somebody that is, like an addict is constantly being like, that’s how you would cope,

[00:25:30] Speaker 3: uhhuh.

[00:25:31] Paige : So that was a concern.

[00:25:32] Donny: Yeah. And that’s where, the years that I’ve had since, my addiction being an issue, it’s 14

[00:25:40] Paige : years.

[00:25:40] Donny: Yeah. Roughly. You’ve built up different coping mechanisms.

[00:25:44] Paige : Yeah.

[00:25:45] Donny: And as long as you stay firm to those, you know really what it’s about is hopelessness versus hope.

[00:25:56] Donny: Since I got clean, I’ve never felt hopeless.

[00:25:59] Paige : [00:26:00] Nice.

[00:26:00] Donny: And I don’t allow myself to feel hopeless. It’s an inventory of things. It’s a little trying to

[00:26:04] Paige : figure out where you can find some hope.

[00:26:06] Donny: It’s a little like trick that I do every morning where first thing I do when I wake up is mentally I go through all my wins from the previous day.

[00:26:16] Donny: And it sounds silly and it sounds stupid, but I think I’ve told you before, like there was one time where Ford, who was a very picky eater

[00:26:24] Donny: Asked me to make him a grilled cheese because you weren’t home. So

[00:26:27] Paige : proud of that grilled cheese.

[00:26:28] Donny: And I made him the grilled cheese. I brought it to him.

[00:26:31] Donny: He picked that thing up and he inspected it like it was a piece of fine art that he hoped wasn’t a fake. He’s looking at both sides of it. He’s checking this damn thing out.

[00:26:45] Paige : It’s like the dollar bill that you’re like holding up to the sun.

[00:26:47] Donny: 100%. And he sits it down on the plate and goes perfect. And picks up his iPad and goes back to playing on his iPad.

[00:26:55] Donny: And I, you’d have thought that, I won the Super Bowl. [00:27:00] That’s so funny. But those are the things that if you can bucket those as wins on a day-to-day basis, it makes those feelings of hopelessness almost impossible to enter your psyche.

[00:27:12] Paige : Think that’s really important for people to hear.

[00:27:14] Paige : ‘cause I think obviously that can work for people who aren’t addicts. Yeah. But especially I’ve, coming from where I come from and Marian is we’re known for having a terrible heroin. Issue because we are right off 23. Yep. From Detroit. It was just, it was really bad.

[00:27:30] Paige : And what you would just see is the people that would get addicted, it was a hopelessness that they had. There’s no reason to live. There’s nothing to live for. I have no hope. And that’s why you see so many churches and things like that. ‘cause you’re trying to instill some level of like hope and Yeah.

[00:27:46] Paige : I’m

[00:27:46] Donny: in my, I’m in my mid twenties. I’m still bartending in a college town. I’m spending all of my money on drugs and concerts and partying with my friends and all of my friends are starting to get out of that life. I [00:28:00] have no path to get out of that life. What do you do?

[00:28:02] Donny: I’m just gonna, this is just gonna be me for the rest of my life, so fuck it.

[00:28:06] Paige : Which is wild because it’s you could have easily just stayed there. You could have easily just been a line cook Yep. Doing heroin the rest of your life. It’s

[00:28:15] Donny: not outta the realm of possibility. Many people fucking do it.

[00:28:18] Paige : Absolutely. But you didn’t, and you’re here and so you survived that, which not everybody does, obviously. And then you survived the heart attack.

[00:28:27] Speaker 3: Yep.

[00:28:28] Paige : And then we’re moving into April.

[00:28:31] Speaker 3: Okay.

[00:28:32] Paige : April was relatively calm until the end of April. Until the very end.

[00:28:35] Donny: Yeah. Yeah. We had a good month going.

[00:28:36] Paige : Had a real good thing going. We had a good thing going. We really did that. I feel like we had moments of that and when I say moments, week or two.

[00:28:44] Donny: Yeah.

[00:28:44] Paige : So April was one of those, and then you get laid off.

[00:28:51] Speaker 3: I don’t

[00:28:52] Paige : love the term laid off. What does that even mean?

[00:28:55] Paige : You didn’t get laid off, you got let go. Not you, but everybody got fired. What the fuck [00:29:00] is a layoff?

[00:29:01] Donny: Yeah. And that was an absolute kick in the dick.

[00:29:04] Paige : Yeah. The ego death of that.

[00:29:05] Donny: Yeah.

[00:29:06] Paige : Thinking when that, after that phone call?

[00:29:07] Donny: Just how can this be real?

[00:29:10] Paige : You had just got back from selling your bronco

[00:29:13] Donny: literally just gotten back from selling my Bronco. With the intention of, continuing to work and buying another vehicle. And just for me, especially, I had built so much of my life around my career.

[00:29:30] Donny: It’s why my first marriage ended. I was told you work too much. You either need to quit your job and get a normal nine to five, or we’re done,

[00:29:40] Paige : couldn’t be me.

[00:29:41] Donny: Yeah. And I said, absolutely not happening. I’ve worked so hard to get where I am in my career. In manufacturing, starting as a machine operator, literally lifting 40 pound pieces of steel into a machine and forming them into elevator doors.

[00:29:56] Donny: 10 hours a day, six days a week. [00:30:00] And I worked my way every step to, sell leader, sell supervisor, shift supervisor. What was driving

[00:30:07] Paige : you?

[00:30:08] Donny: Just knowing that I was wasting my intelligence.

[00:30:14] Paige : Yeah.

[00:30:15] Donny: Knowing that potential. That’s what was for me too, knowing that I couldn’t help myself, but problem solve.

[00:30:19] Donny: When I saw inefficiencies, I would just, go to my plant manager and be like, why in the hell are we doing it this way? X, Y, z, when if you just did it YZX

[00:30:31] Donny: It would be twice as quick.

[00:30:32] Paige : Yeah.

[00:30:33] Donny: And, luckily I had that plant manager that I was just talking about, who still to this day when I, 15 years since him and I worked together.

[00:30:44] Donny: And still, when I go back to the town, my hometown, WAPA Canta, where that facility was, if he’s around him and I’ll go catch a beer.

[00:30:52] Paige : Yeah.

[00:30:53] Donny: But he saw something in me and said, oh, you’re gonna be big for this company. Let me foster [00:31:00] this in you. So that helped being moved up the ladder at that facility, but you reach a top out point where it’s okay, nobody above me is close to retiring. This is a small company. So then it was, okay, where’s the next step that I can go to? And it was just,

[00:31:16] Paige : it became about growth and being able to reach your potential.

[00:31:19] Donny: 100%. And especially when I got into continuous improvement, I fell in love.

[00:31:24] Donny: I was paying for certifications on my own. I was constantly taking in knowledge. I was reaching out to people. And this was before a time when coaching online was a thing. Yeah. But I’m finding people, through have written books about lean manufacturing and continuous improvement.

[00:31:45] Donny: I’m reaching out to them and just saying, Hey, can I just talk to you about some things? Can I just ask you some questions? And I just couldn’t get enough of it. So that’s

[00:31:54] Paige : When you find that thing that you like, can’t stop thinking about or that you’re obsessed [00:32:00] about, you’ve gotta follow that.

[00:32:01] Paige : You don’t have to figure out the how, but you’ve gotta follow that because it’s your life force.

[00:32:06] Donny: And then it helps,

[00:32:07] Paige : typically you’re gonna be good at the thing you’re, obsessed with.

[00:32:09] Donny: Yeah.

[00:32:10] Paige : So you’re good at it, you’re obsessed with it, and then you have a job at this point, making great, you’re making great money.

[00:32:16] Paige : Yeah. And you were traveling, which you loved to do. Yeah,

[00:32:18] Donny: absolutely. Being single after my divorce and, I specifically took that job because when they headhunted me, they told me that there was going to be a lot of travel involved. And I’m like that’s perfect.

[00:32:29] Donny: I’m single. At this point I’m living up in Michigan for another job and was just like, yeah, that’s perfect. You’re gonna pay for me to travel, I’m gonna get to collect all the points and hang out

[00:32:40] Paige : with people, have drinks. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:32:43] Paige : Just get to know people and then help them and do what you are really good at. 100%. So when you’re fired,

[00:32:48] Donny: The hardest thing about getting fired was, the first realization that came to me is I don’t have a resume. I [00:33:00] don’t know how to look for a job really, because the three, that job plus the two before it, I was headhunted for.

[00:33:08] Donny: So I hadn’t looked for a job in probably 12 years. As we all know, a lot happened between 2013 and 2020 or 2012 and 2024.

[00:33:20] Donny: I didn’t know how people, back then it was like, indeed was like brand new. So that was how I get on Indeed. And I’m like there’s no jobs on here that like I’m looking for.

[00:33:30] Donny: How do I build a resume? I, everybody’s talking about how AI scrubbers on your resumes Yeah. Before it even gets to a human. I don’t know anything about that because I’ve never had to do it before. So that was the ominous feeling of I’m in a position that I don’t know how to be in.

[00:33:48] Paige : I could feel you collapsing in that.

[00:33:52] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:33:52] Paige : Like you were co collapsing in that it, you shut down.

[00:33:59] Donny: I had [00:34:00] every job. Before the last one, but the, probably the five jobs before that, I would put in my two weeks notice, sometimes more depending on the job. And my last day would be a Friday, and then I would start my new job on Monday.

[00:34:16] Donny: I didn’t take time off in between. I know that’s a pretty popular thing until this last job. The previous place I worked before that was so incredibly stressful and morally compromising for me.

[00:34:31] Paige : Yeah.

[00:34:32] Donny: That I, as soon as I quit that job, I was on a plane two days later to Peru and I was there for a month.

[00:34:42] Donny: And while I was in Peru is when the other company reached out to Headhunt. Even though I was taking that time off in between to just. Be with myself. I still didn’t have to look for a job afterwards, so that’s why this was such an earth shattering thing for [00:35:00] me because one, I don’t know how to look for a job.

[00:35:03] Donny: Two, I don’t know how to sell myself anymore, two decision makers for hiring because I’ve been hunted and I didn’t have to sell myself. They had to sell their company to me. So you’re either to pull me away

[00:35:17] Paige : Exactly. You’re either accepting or rejecting. What do you think your lowest point was during that process?

[00:35:23] Donny: There there’s two. There was one where I talked to a corporate recruiter and I’ll never forget this because I started laughing and it was a combination of being in shock. Being really uncomfortable with what he had said, but also just thinking, it’s hilarious because it was a pretty small company in comparison to what I had been working for.

[00:35:53] Donny: If you go through my work history and do the calculations, I’ve saved Fortune 100 companies, [00:36:00] billions of dollars in cost savings. And I’ve increased revenue by billions of dollars on just my project work alone. And somebody who is a HR professional recruiter told me on a call that it didn’t sound like I really understood what I was talking

[00:36:20] Paige : about.

[00:36:21] Paige : Oh my God. I can only imagine. ‘cause I know you

[00:36:23] Donny: and what I wanted to say was, bro. Bro,

[00:36:29] Donny: if you only had the time

[00:36:32] Paige : for me to sit here and tell you

[00:36:34] Donny: absolutely inundate you with why you’re wrong. So that was a very low point because it’s holy shit, I’m not good at

[00:36:43] Paige : communicating that

[00:36:44] Donny: Yeah. ‘cause my job was never like teach people how to do this. It was go in and fucking do it.

[00:36:51] Paige : Absolutely.

[00:36:52] Donny: So that was one. And then the other one, and I think you’ll remember this one, ‘cause I don’t think I even told you about that.

[00:36:59] Paige : And you didn’t even tell me about that [00:37:00] one.

[00:37:00] Donny: No, because it was so like slap in the Facey. Yeah. Like I just, I was just like, I’m not even gonna tell her that because just she’s gonna try to be like, oh, he’s just an idiot.

[00:37:10] Donny: I’m gonna be like R. Yeah. But the other one was the one where went through the whole interview process. COO loved me. Oh yeah. They sent me an email the next day after like my fifth or sixth interview, which for the love of God, anybody who’s working for a corporation, if you’re listening, stop doing five or six interviews if you, it’s so unnecessary.

[00:37:34] Donny: You can’t, if you can’t tell within the first half hour, you are bad at your job.

[00:37:39] Paige : Yeah.

[00:37:40] Donny: But yeah, go through all these interviews. Everybody loves me. Everybody loves what I’m talking about for my vision, for their business.

[00:37:47] Donny: Send me an email, actually, and it was like brutal. It was almost like it was a little Diddy from the gods to like, let me have a couple of days of peace and happiness.

[00:37:59] Paige : Because you [00:38:00] did Phish that weekend.

[00:38:00] Donny: It was the day before a bunch of my friends were coming to town to go to a Phish show.

[00:38:06] Donny: And I wake up, there’s an email and it’s them letting me know that they’re just working through all the logistics of it, but that they will be extending me an offer.

[00:38:17] Donny: So I’m pumped. I’m like, finally this months of not working, which me not working is bad for everybody.

[00:38:26] Paige : Yeah, we’re, we talk about, I talk about that on the Substack.

[00:38:28] Paige : I was like, you’re double cheeked up on the couch. And I’m like, I’m working. I know. That has to be killing you.

[00:38:33] Donny: Oh, absolutely. I love what I do for a career.

[00:38:37] Paige : You don’t just love it. Donnie, you. It’s your identity. I live it. And so it’s like when you don’t have that, you almost don’t know who you are.

[00:38:47] Paige : Like void. I, it’s you don’t exist.

[00:38:49] Donny: Don’t know how to move in the world and it’s a very strange feeling for me and I don’t like it.

[00:38:55] Paige : Yeah.

[00:38:55] Donny: I will be one of those people that I’ll work till the day I die.

[00:38:58] Paige : Yeah. I wouldn’t retire either.

[00:38:59] Donny: [00:39:00] No. I just I wouldn’t know what the hell to do with myself.

[00:39:02] Donny: Exactly. But yeah, so I get this email saying, Hey, we’re working out the final logistics on everything, but we’re gonna be extending you an offer. Like I said, the next day my friends all come into town and we’re at the house. We’re having a good time. I’m in the best mood ever ‘cause I’ve got a job lined up.

[00:39:19] Donny: So go to the Phish Show, have an absolute fucking blast. Come back to the house afterwards, party, have a great time. Get up the next day. My friends all leave. And that was on a, I think like a. Thursday that they all left. Now I’m on cloud nine. Yes. And exercise the demons.

[00:39:37] Donny: Yeah. And then wake up Friday morning to an email saying, Hey, we jumped the gun a little bit. There’s actually another interview we want to have. Our whole corporate team, or our whole team of plant leaders from all of our facilities are coming for corporate meetings at our headquarters. So we want you to come in and meet with some of them.

[00:39:58] Donny: So [00:40:00] I am instantly down in the dumps. You tried to, portray it as an intelligent person. I just tried to reframe it. Yeah. As an intelligent person would portray it like, oh, they just wanna make sure.

[00:40:10] Paige : Yeah.

[00:40:10] Donny: Go in, do that interview, crush it. Everything is great. Everybody is literally as they’re shaking my hands, leaving the conference room saying, really looking forward to be really looking forward to working with

[00:40:21] Paige : Literally.

[00:40:22] Donny: Not a doubt in my mind that this isn’t going through a week later, haven’t heard anything. So I reach out, don’t hear anything for a couple more days, reach out again, then get a phone call. We’re gonna go with somebody else

[00:40:37] Paige : that’s closer to the Mexico facility or something like that.

[00:40:38] Paige : Yes,

[00:40:38] Donny: exactly. They were located in Texas, which meant they could travel to the Mexico facility early. It’s you should have

[00:40:42] Paige : thought about that prior to this. And that just shows you, we all we have right now is hindsight, of course. And so we know why it didn’t work out because we’re always where we’re supposed to be.

[00:40:51] Paige : Yep. But just in that moment being like, dude, you guys didn’t have this conversation [00:41:00] before the interview process. That’s not a company you wanna work for.

[00:41:03] Donny: It’s so good that I, over the years, have gotten good at biting my tongue. Because the things that I wanted to say to that poor

[00:41:13] Paige : woman.

[00:41:13] Donny: Yeah. That poor HR woman would’ve probably made her cry. And it’s not her fault, right? She’s just being told by the higher ups. But it just, that was really the point where, you know I’d mentioned the job that was like morally compromising for me in the past. And once you reach certain levels of corporate America where you are working with the executive team on a consistent basis, you really start to find out how just ruthless and dirty and cutthroat and how much they don’t give a shit if it’s negatively affecting their bottom line.

[00:41:54] Paige : No.

[00:41:54] Donny: That was a turning point for me where, I started applying less and [00:42:00] less to corporate roles.

[00:42:02] Paige : Yep.

[00:42:02] Donny: And was having conversations with you about, how do I become a consultant?

[00:42:07] Paige : You were not at that point, open to thinking outside the box.

[00:42:10] Paige : And we had a conversation prior to you getting laid off about me saying, ‘cause you were like, I really, my next step is COO. That’s, that’s where I wanna progress to. And you were like, it’s gonna be like five to 10 years. And I laughed.

[00:42:26] Donny: You did a hundred percent laughed in my face.

[00:42:28] Donny: That

[00:42:28] Paige : is crazy. Yeah. I didn’t, I don’t know why you would think it has to take this long because in my head it doesn’t ever have to be that hard. And it doesn’t ever have to take that long. It only takes as long as you need it to. And you weren’t at the time looking at the world like that.

[00:42:41] Paige : And I remember you specifically saying to me. If I accept what you’re saying to me about that, then everything I’ve ever lived and done is a lie.

[00:42:51] Paige : My identity, and i’m not prepared to that. So I was like you’re gonna be real uncomfortable around here.

[00:42:55] Paige : But you weren’t at the time prepared to accept that, because that [00:43:00] would mean that you maybe worked a little harder than you needed to, or it took a little bit longer.

[00:43:05] Donny: Kissed way more ass than I needed to.

[00:43:07] Paige : And so I knew that if it got bad enough for you, the type, you’re just the type of person that sometimes it has to get really bad for you to start thinking, okay, that’s

[00:43:19] Donny: not, sometimes that’s just how I, that’s how I’ll live in a world of this isn’t great.

[00:43:25] Donny: No qualms. I know you won’t.

[00:43:27] Paige : I don’t, we are not like that. And we’re not alike in that way. Do not claim I re repeat that, but I don’t, that’s not for me. Yeah. And so if you’re gonna be in my life, I basically knew that you would eventually get to and on your own. We, I talked about that in Substack.

[00:43:43] Paige : There was no way I was pushing it. No, I wasn’t bringing it to you. I was like, you’re gonna figure it out. I’m gonna do what I do. Like we’re not gonna starve because I’m going to do what I need to do.

[00:43:52] Donny: You were great through all of that because I was not easy to be in the [00:44:00] same city as, let alone the same house as i, I am very well aware how much of a. How much of a asshole I was being, how much of a, Debbie Downer I was about everything. How bad my outlook on life in general was at that point was just, it was

[00:44:19] Paige : defeatist that percent, that was more of the issue. And so I wasn’t engaging, ‘cause I couldn’t at the time, like I, ‘cause we had, so we you get laid off and then the next month may, you’re still job searching.

[00:44:33] Paige : And then we randomly do you remember this conversation? ‘cause I was like, I don’t think you said, I remember us being at brunch police. At the very first one. Yep. Shout out brunch please. And me being like, I think I’m late. And you were like, you are not pregnant. I was like, no, I don’t think I’m pregnant.

[00:44:51] Paige : No, I wouldn’t be here. Yeah. A bottle of

[00:44:53] Donny: that was more of a. I really hope you’re not pregnant right now ‘cause things aren’t great for me.

[00:44:59] Paige : [00:45:00] And so I just am like, oh, I think I had a pregnancy center maybe. How’d you get me one? And it sat there for another week. I felt no urgency whatsoever to take that test.

[00:45:10] Paige : And then one morning I was like, oh, the test. And I took it and I remember laughing. I look at it and I’m just like, then I walk downstairs and I look at you and I just hold it up.

[00:45:22] Donny: And I think my response was, fuck

[00:45:25] Paige : yeah. And my immediate response was, this change is nothing. It was like, I’m gonna keep acting as if I’ve been acting.

[00:45:33] Paige : This changes nothing. This means we’re pregnant. That’s great. Amazing. I’m gonna go upstairs and work.

[00:45:38] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:45:38] Paige : I was like, this changes nothing. Yeah. It was such a trauma response because I, ‘cause the first one had been. I was just relaxing more and I was, I had let my, not myself go, but I really had not been on top of what I usually am.

[00:45:55] Paige : Yeah. And we, that would’ve been fine if you hadn’t lost your job. A hundred

[00:45:59] Donny: [00:46:00] percent. And we had just gotten out of the first pregnancy and, we’re like getting back to being fun. Yeah. New, fresh couple.

[00:46:10] Speaker 3: Yep.

[00:46:10] Donny: And we’re going out every once in a while and having fun.

[00:46:13] Donny: We didn’t get to date at all. So we, pretty much the month of April that we talked about being like calm and nothing crazy happening.

[00:46:21] Paige : Yeah.

[00:46:21] Donny: That April

[00:46:21] Paige : it was April. We had just sold the Broco. It was April. So we had. Some money. We weren’t like stressed, we weren’t like freaking out.

[00:46:27] Donny: We’re going out and having nice dinners and getting bottles of wine and having a good time dating.

[00:46:33] Paige : Yes.

[00:46:34] Donny: And then I lose my job

[00:46:36] Paige : and

[00:46:36] Donny: then it’s oh, could you put one more thing on my shoulders please? So what

[00:46:40] Paige : was that like for you?

[00:46:40] Paige : What were you thinking?

[00:46:42] Donny: Was scared to death because I did not know it was gonna be that much of a struggle for me to find a job.

[00:46:50] Paige : Yeah.

[00:46:51] Donny: And after being in that struggle, having the highs and the lows of being told you’re gonna get this offer and then not [00:47:00] getting it, I didn’t know if it was gonna be a month or a year until I found something.

[00:47:07] Donny: And now we’re gonna try to support bringing a baby into the world. All the costs that are gonna be associated with that. I didn’t have health insurance anymore, which meant you didn’t have health insurance and just, what else can you fucking throw at me right now?

[00:47:25] Paige : I’m so glad you asked. I am not only pregnant, I’m also severely depressed because of the pregnancy.

[00:47:33] Paige : Not because I was pregnant, but because I was pregnant, because I had pa prenatal depression. And so I had never experienced that in, it was interesting ‘cause even with the first two, I was not in a great marriage, we weren’t Yeah. By any means, happy together. But I didn’t experience that depression at all.

[00:47:53] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:47:53] Paige : And so we’ve got you jobless and depressed, and now we have me at [00:48:00] 50% maybe capacity to do anything. And everybody that’s been pregnant understands what the first trimester is like. But then you add the depression onto that. It was not good.

[00:48:11] Donny: And you were basically in your second, first trimester in six months.

[00:48:16] Paige : Yes.

[00:48:17] Donny: That’s

[00:48:17] Paige : my body didn’t fully even get to It’s

[00:48:19] Donny: fucking brutal.

[00:48:20] Paige : Yeah. And I haven’t been myself since we re-met essentially. Yeah. And so I am

[00:48:27] Paige : questioning everything. I’m like, did I do something wrong? How can this be right if everything’s going wrong?

[00:48:35] Paige : There’s no way that this can be correct. I just have never doubted myself so much the decisions I was making I just don’t usually go back and forth in that way.

[00:48:43] Paige : About my decisions. But I think it’s because I just felt like I was being punished for something which again, I don’t believe in deserving or being right or wrong or losing or winning, but I guess I did and I needed to remember that do you see what I’m saying?

[00:48:59] Paige : A hundred percent. Like I got [00:49:00] an opportunity to see that there were still remnants of I’m being punished, I’m being bad, what do I need to do to be right.

[00:49:10] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[00:49:10] Paige : And maybe it’s not be in this relationship or any relationship. So that kind of brings us to the point where. With the car accident happened, I feel like that wasn’t that big of a deal.

[00:49:21] Paige : I don’t think it was a huge deal for you. I don’t think you have a huge perspective on that.

[00:49:23] Donny: No just scared to death. Obviously I get a freaking phone call and you are obviously freaking out because of what had just happened. The adrenaline, so like I’d get half the information that I would want to get in that phone call.

[00:49:38] Donny: And then you show up back at the house and I’m just like checking you head to toe to make sure you’re okay. Yeah. I just had my

[00:49:45] Paige : toe was cut. That was

[00:49:46] Donny: it. So yeah, once I realized you were okay and you know that you weren’t hurt and that the baby was okay.

[00:49:54] Donny: It happened. That sucks. But here we are.

[00:49:57] Paige : Yeah.

[00:49:57] Donny: Yeah.

[00:49:57] Paige : Yeah. If you look at the, if you go [00:50:00] back and you look at everything we’ve been through, that was the least of it.

[00:50:02] Donny: Yeah. Which is crazy to say.

[00:50:04] Paige : Yeah. Just to recap, we were married, lost a pregnancy.

[00:50:10] Paige : He had a heart attack. He got laid off. I then found out I’m pregnant again. Prenatal depression. Then I get into a car accident.

[00:50:19] Donny: Yeah usually you don’t gloss over a car accident where you hit a telephone pole head on. But in this scenario, yeah. That’s nothing compared to everything else going on.

[00:50:28] Paige : Exactly. And that’s exactly how I approached it. I was like, wow, that could have been worse. Yeah. And so I was like, actually very grateful. It helped me reorient my, it helped with the depression almost. ‘cause I was like, I’m alive. At the before that I had no will to live. And I was like I really wouldn’t have wanted to die fair. Other outside of my kids, I really didn’t have a will to live. But I was like, oh no. I think, yeah, I think there’s still life in here. And then I hit like second trimester and I realized it’s really just that. But what happened [00:51:00] in August, September was more of our relationship because you

[00:51:06] Donny: start working here,

[00:51:07] Paige : in sales

[00:51:08] Donny: As a sales guy, which you’ve

[00:51:09] Paige : You literally just said that you sucked at selling yourself. So

[00:51:13] Donny: 100%. That’s just, I, and this is gonna sound egotistical and that I think you knowing me well enough to know that it’s not that way. I’m used to directing people on what to do, not trying to get somebody to buy something from me.

[00:51:31] Paige : Exactly.

[00:51:31] Donny: To going into facilities. I have a short amount of time there because I’m over multiple facilities, so I have to work quickly and efficiently and I’m used to going in and saying, okay, I don’t have time for you to ask questions about why. I will do my best to explain that to you. But you need to do this, you need to do this, you need to do this, you need to do this.

[00:51:51] Donny: Report back to me when it’s done so I can give you your next task.

[00:51:54] Paige : Yeah.

[00:51:55] Donny: That’s how my whole career has been.

[00:51:58] Paige : So you get this job and you’re [00:52:00] in a role that you’ve never done before and you’re probably not even good at. And that works out. Obviously you do what you do, which is make suggestions about how things can be better.

[00:52:08] Donny: Can’t help myself, Mike

[00:52:09] Paige : sees it yada, yada. He gets promoted. That doesn’t change much for me. So how did you experience me in that time when I was pretty unsure?

[00:52:19] Donny: Oh, man. I, the feeling when you get the wind knocked out of you? I felt like that every minute that I was at the house.

[00:52:27] Donny: It’s not so much that I felt like I was walking on eggshells because I knew that what I was doing was everything that I could do. I knew that the only way to.

[00:52:41] Donny: Show you that you wanted to stay in the marriage, and not that I was trying to convince you, but I just treated that statement. Although when you hear it for the first time, which statement? Oh, that I don’t know if I’m [00:53:00] gonna still want to be married to you after the baby is born.

[00:53:03] Paige : Yeah.

[00:53:04] Donny: Obvious that’s not

[00:53:05] Paige : funny.

[00:53:05] Donny: Obviously you hear that statement and it’s like a absolute punch in the nose. Because it’s what the fuck are we doing that? Yeah. And of course I’m a problem solver, so I instantly go into why are we gonna wait to find out? Let’s just fucking be, that’s where my mind instantly goes.

[00:53:23] Donny: But then of course, like the rational side of me kicks in and it’s she doesn’t know. So I’m just ‘cause of the

[00:53:29] Paige : hormones. Of

[00:53:30] Donny: course. And so I, in my mind it was just, I’m going to continue to operate how I’ve been operating. Which is always trying to be, even through my depression, while it might not have showed in the ways that I wanted it to, I still was trying to be supportive, still trying to always have your back.

[00:53:47] Donny: Still trying to make sure that anything you needed that I could take care of, I would take care of. So I just made the decision at that point that, the chips are gonna fall where they fall, so I’m just going to [00:54:00] keep doing what I’m doing. My feelings towards her haven’t changed any. Obviously, I don’t have the hormones that you have going through your body at that point. So I’m just going to keep trying to be the best husband and expectant father that I can be and just see how it all plays out.

[00:54:19] Paige : Yeah. And I think ultimately, looking back and obviously have clarity now, a lot of it had to do with

[00:54:25] Paige : like you being unemployed. You didn’t handle that the way I would’ve handled it.

[00:54:29] Donny: Fair.

[00:54:30] Paige : And so I was making, I was worried that if anything like that ever would happen again, that you would handle it that same way. And what I mean by that is like you weren’t really handling it. ‘cause you weren’t.

[00:54:43] Paige : ‘cause you weren’t. You were trying to, you were still in your box of corporate. A hundred

[00:54:46] Speaker 3: percent.

[00:54:47] Paige : And I’m always like, figure it out. Figure it out. Like dude, we’ve gotta think outside the box. And so there was me feeling like I would always have to figure it out.

[00:54:57] Paige : And I was like, if that’s the fucking case, [00:55:00] then I might as well be single. Yeah. That’s yeah. Fair. 200 pounds into. That’s less the feed. Yeah. In my head I’m always gonna have to figure it out. But again, I wasn’t sure if I was seeing things clearly because I was so depressed that you can only see things a certain way when you’re in a certain frequency.

[00:55:20] Paige : Hundred percent. And it’s very dense. It’s like I didn’t have access to other ways of looking at it or anything like that. And so I was very much always trying to stay away.

[00:55:29] Paige : So I could maintain what little bit of like free floating happiness I had. Yeah. And when you said, what did you say?

[00:55:41] Paige : You said that I wanted to be a fractional wife. Yeah. Or that you wanted,

[00:55:45] Donny: yeah. You wanted to be a fractional wife or be in a fractional marriage.

[00:55:49] Paige : What did you mean by that?

[00:55:50] Donny: I meant exactly what it sounds like. For

[00:55:54] Paige : those aren’t in business. What is a fractional marriage or a fractional anything?

[00:55:56] Donny: I felt like you wanted to be married when [00:56:00] it suited your needs and that when it didn’t suit your needs, you did not wanna be married.

[00:56:05] Donny: And you, I felt that at that time, not only is that what you wanted, but that’s just how you were treating the situation.

[00:56:16] Donny: Not my best moment to, because it was a reactive statement to it, how you felt. It was.

[00:56:16] Paige : It wasn’t. It wasn’t untrue.

[00:56:17] Donny: It wasn’t untrue. But I could have definitely packaged that statement a little better.

[00:56:23] Paige : Oh, my audience loved it. They’re like, I aspire to be a fractional wife.

[00:56:27] Donny: I was like,

[00:56:27] Paige : I don’t know. Do you still feel like I am that way?

[00:56:31] Donny: No. But what you also have to take into account is at that time I was still getting used to how you are in a marriage, in a relationship, which is don’t, we’re not spending every minute together.

[00:56:46] Donny: We’re not like, just ‘cause we’re in the same house at the same time doesn’t mean we’re sitting on the couch together. It’s insane. It doesn’t mean insane. Yeah, exactly. But that’s, I don’t wanna say not normal, but it’s not normal.

[00:56:57] Paige : I think other people just don’t have other things to do [00:57:00] or have their own hobbies or like joys and things.

[00:57:04] Paige : 100% things that they do in their alone time. 100%.

[00:57:07] Donny: And with you and the way you work, you’re always working.

[00:57:11] Paige : Huh.

[00:57:12] Donny: And me being around while you’re working is a detriment to that.

[00:57:16] Paige : In

[00:57:16] Donny: most instances.

[00:57:17] Donny: So like coming to that realization that you don’t have a, you don’t have a, oh, my work day’s done at this time.

[00:57:25] Donny: Yeah. Now we’re gonna do dinner and watch TV and do this. There are times where it’s midnight and you’re still shooting content. Like that’s so it was as much me getting used to that still as anything else.

[00:57:41] Paige : Yeah. I think that is, I where like my healing from my past, relationships actually did show up is that I am very much my own sovereign planet and I don’t like, I.

[00:57:59] Paige : Have [00:58:00] my own thing going. And I actually think that it probably makes you wanna be like, where is she? What is she doing? More than if I was always around.

[00:58:07] Donny: And the pregnancy exacerbates.

[00:58:09] Paige : Yeah.

[00:58:09] Donny: Like even in that, time that we weren’t pregnant, we still even when we were in the same house, we still let very different lives during that time, but there was a lot more crossover.

[00:58:19] Paige : Yeah. We would make time to spend together.

[00:58:21] Donny: Exactly. And then you got into your pregnancy, you were depressed and you just wanted zero to do with me.

[00:58:29] Paige : But also, I can’t imagine you would want anything to do with me. Like I wasn’t that great to be around either.

[00:58:34] Donny: That’s a valid point, but I mean I was trying to force it more than you were.

[00:58:39] Paige : Yeah. I’m not forcing anything. Yeah. Yeah. That’s the difference between I’m two of us. I’m not gonna pretend I’m

[00:58:44] Donny: aware,

[00:58:45] Paige : And so I like when I started to come around. Because I think you said one of your favorite things about me is that you don’t have to wonder what I’m thinking.

[00:58:54] Paige : Nope. And you believe what I’m saying because I’ll tell you, even when it’s rough and hard, it

[00:58:59] Donny: makes being [00:59:00] in a relationship, in a marriage with you incredibly easy for me.

[00:59:03] Paige : Yeah.

[00:59:04] Donny: There’s never the it’s the running joke of, a guy asks a woman what’s wrong and she says nothing.

[00:59:12] Paige : Yeah.

[00:59:13] Donny: And you know something’s wrong.

[00:59:14] Paige : Yeah.

[00:59:15] Donny: But she just won’t tell you

[00:59:17] Paige : if I say nothing, it’s really nothing.

[00:59:18] Donny: A hundred percent. And I never question it because I know if I say what’s wrong and there’s something wrong, you’re gonna be like, motherfucker. Yeah. It’s because of X, Y, Z.

[00:59:27] Paige : Actually, I didn’t like when you said this thing.

[00:59:30] Paige : Absolutely. Or this thing happened, or This doesn’t feel good, or, I’m whatever. And I, that is how, that’s like my love language is honesty.

[00:59:38] Donny: Yeah. And that’s one of the things that I love about you above all else, is I’m never questioning you. I’m never questioning where your heart’s at. I’m never questioning where your head’s at.

[00:59:47] Donny: I always just know. And it makes being your husband incredibly easy.

[00:59:54] Paige : That’s so funny. ‘cause I think a lot of people look at me and think I am probably extremely difficult. [01:00:00]

[01:00:00] Donny: That’s so easy. You just figure out what you want done. Like she, she wants the dishes done. It’s what I like, know what I like XX amount of times a week.

[01:00:11] Donny: Okay, cool. I can do that. No problem. She likes this food and doesn’t like this food. Okay. We’re never gonna go to this restaurant, ever. Like it just, it’s, everything is so easy.

[01:00:22] Paige : Do you think, because, and also we, you’ve talked about this. I appreciate you when you do the thing, like when you like, oh, 100%.

[01:00:32] Paige : I’m always thanking you when you do the dishes. Just be, do I expect you to do the dishes? Yeah, I do expect the dishes to be done. Not you, but Yeah, somebody’s going to do the dishes will be done. But if you do it, I’m thanking you. Yeah. All, even if you should be doing it. A hundred percent

[01:00:44] Donny: yes.

[01:00:44] Donny: I should be the one to take out the trash always. But when I take out the trash and you notice it, you say thank you, that’s great for me. Yeah. I, I don’t need you to throw me a party, but I do love being appreciated for the things that I do, even if I’m supposed to do that.

[01:00:59] Paige : Does it make you [01:01:00] wanna do them more?

[01:01:01] Paige : A hundred percent. Yeah. Because you’ve been on top of it.

[01:01:04] Donny: I love a good attaboy.

[01:01:06] Paige : And then you also said something else too and I think that, I wonder if during the time you were really in your depression, I think I know the answer this, but I’m gonna ask anyway. Do you wish I took care of you more?

[01:01:19] Donny: No. Absolutely not. If you would’ve been around me more, it would’ve made me feel more worthless.

[01:01:25] Paige : Yeah.

[01:01:25] Donny: It would’ve made me feel more useless. I actually, as bad as this may sound, but you’re gonna understand, I would hear the creek of your door opening and be like, God damnit, because I just had it build up in my head and you never did, but I just had it build up in my head that you were gonna come downstairs and be like how many jobs did you apply to today?

[01:01:48] Donny: And No. ‘cause I’m not your mother or your

[01:01:50] Paige : boss or your manager. Of course,

[01:01:51] Donny: but when you feel like you are not holding up your end of the bargain. You think about it as a boss, yeah. If somebody’s not doing their job, you have a meeting with [01:02:00] them and you hold them accountable for why they’re not doing it.

[01:02:03] Donny: So while I know that’s not gonna happen with you, I still had it in my brain that like, oh shit, here we go. Not in a negative way towards you, but in now I have to feign that. I’m excited about this, initial phone screen that I have set up. With some Bush League company and Bush League freaking Reno or wherever.

[01:02:25] Paige : Yeah.

[01:02:26] Donny: So yeah, it was, it I didn’t want to not be around you, but I didn’t want you to like, try to make

[01:02:34] Paige : it better.

[01:02:34] Donny: Yeah.

[01:02:35] Paige : Which was my, that’s how I knew I healed because that is what I would’ve tried to do.

[01:02:41] Paige : And any other relationship, it was trying to be better. Try to take care of, try to fix your problems.

[01:02:48] Paige : I was I trying to fix. Our problems. Yes, of course. I was trying to make sure everything was taken care of and that, the kids had everything they needed. I had everything. We as a family, that we had what we needed, but [01:03:00] I wasn’t trying to fix your problems and I wasn’t collapsing under Yeah, you, and like bringing myself, to meet you there, which is what I would’ve done.

[01:03:10] Paige : So I think it’s really hard for women to understand, stop taking care of him a

[01:03:18] Donny: hundred percent. Stop

[01:03:19] Paige : taking care of him. Stop trying to fix his problems.

[01:03:21] Donny: No matter what it seems like he’s feeling, no matter how he may be reacting in the moment, no man wants to be taken care of. That’s not what feels good to a man.

[01:03:35] Speaker 3: No. What feels

[01:03:35] Donny: good to a man is providing. Doesn’t matter what they’re providing. It could be just providing knowledge. Providing a shoulder to cry on, providing a listening ear, providing money. Whatever it is, that’s what makes men happy. So when you are taking care of them, you are actually the exact opposite of what they want.

[01:03:58] Paige : Even though they say they [01:04:00] want it 100%, it’s because they have mommy issues.

[01:04:03] Donny: Absolutely. A hundred percent.

[01:04:05] Paige : Yeah. You said, I don’t need you to take care of me ‘cause I have a mother

[01:04:09] Donny: a hundred percent. And I’m grown. That’s, yeah. But that’s the reality of the situation. I don’t want you to take care of me.

[01:04:15] Donny: I want to take care of us.

[01:04:16] Paige : Yeah.

[01:04:17] Donny: And that starts obviously with taking care of me, but I also want to know that when I take care of it, that I took care of it.

[01:04:26] Donny: If you are taking care of it, then it’s just you solving my problems. And as I talked about earlier, I love problem solving. It took me a lot longer to solve this specific problem than I would’ve ever wanted it to.

[01:04:38] Donny: But

[01:04:39] Paige : it got figured out.

[01:04:40] Donny: It got figured out.

[01:04:41] Paige : So obviously things got better and I came around.

[01:04:45] Paige : And it seemed like maybe I had decided that I was in it. And I think we talked about that at dinner the other night. ‘cause I said, yeah, I’m in it. Yeah. I hadn’t really said it out loud.

[01:04:55] Paige : Yeah. A hundred percent. But

[01:04:56] Donny: I knew that tide had turned.

[01:04:58] Paige : Do you know when that happened? Like [01:05:00] what did my behavior change? What happened?

[01:05:02] Donny: Yeah. Yeah. It

[01:05:03] Paige : Oh,

[01:05:04] Donny: I had started to feel it just in the warmth with which you were interacting with me.

[01:05:10] Paige : I know what you’re gonna say. What

[01:05:10] Donny: actually changed it and solidified it was when I was sitting at the island on my computer doing work and you came downstairs for something and you thanked me for doing something. I don’t know if it was the dishes or whatever it was, or wiping things down or whatever it was.

[01:05:28] Donny: And you came over and you gave me like a little side hug and you started to walk away and you stopped. And when you stopped, I like obviously looked up and you turned around and you said, just so you know, you can start hugging me when you want to.

[01:05:42] Paige : Yeah. You can touch me.

[01:05:43] Donny: Yeah. And that was of course that was the moment.

[01:05:46] Donny: And it sounds so ridiculous that like a wife would have to say that to a husband.

[01:05:50] Paige : That’s why I knew that’s what you were gonna say.

[01:05:51] Donny: But yeah, that’s when it was like a hundred percent solidified that she knows what she wants and what she wants.

[01:05:57] Paige : Yes, because moving forward I didn’t know you forward.

[01:05:59] Paige : I would [01:06:00] not allow you to touch me 100%. Even if you are my

[01:06:03] Donny: 100% my

[01:06:04] Paige : husband in my home. I am. Yep. I’m very like boundaried in that way. And you can tell when I want you Yes. Close to me or not close to me. Yes. Without me saying anything. Okay, so I thought that might be what you said around that, and let’s see what other questions are.

[01:06:20] Paige : How do you feel about becoming a dad in the next a dad again, obviously.

[01:06:24] Donny: Yeah. I think that anybody who would ever answer that question without saying that they’re nervous or scared or something to that effect is either a serial killer or lying.

[01:06:40] Paige : Yeah.

[01:06:40] Donny: Yeah, of course you’re going to.

[01:06:43] Donny: Shape the reality that another human being sees the world.

[01:06:50] Donny: You are the biggest impression on them of anything that makes them the person that they’re going to become. So that’s [01:07:00] scary.

[01:07:00] Paige : Of course,

[01:07:00] Donny: because once again, while I don’t regret the decisions I’ve ever made, I know I’ve made plenty of bad ones.

[01:07:07] Donny: And I don’t want that for my child. But at the same time, while I got to skip what most people would call the hard parts, because with my stepdaughter, she was older, she was four when my ex-wife and I moved in together I couldn’t be more excited. Yeah. Even if I wouldn’t have had that past experience just because of.

[01:07:32] Donny: How close I am with my dad and how I view him. I would still think the same way, which is I’m gonna be a fucking kick ass dad.

[01:07:42] Paige : Yeah. And I agree. So I agree a hundred percent. That even when I had told myself I wasn’t gonna introduce the kids to anybody unless I was, engaged or like on the way to be married, but I, with you, I was like I’m gonna introduce them to him because it could be just Uncle [01:08:00] Donnie.

[01:08:00] Paige : Like I, because you’re so that, and so I would agree that you’re gonna be a great father. Hold on. I had another question, but I lost it. Hold on. Oh, okay. So I guess this is a three part question.

[01:08:14] Donny: Oh boy.

[01:08:15] Paige : It’s easy. It’s three prongs of the same question. What do you think. You learned the most about yourself this year? What do you think you learned the most about me this year? And what do you think you learned the most about our relationship this year?

[01:08:28] Donny: That’s a good question. Thank you. What I learned the most about myself is while I have always thought of myself as resourceful, I learned this year that moving forward I have the foreknowledge of the fact that there is literally nothing that the universe could put in front of me that I can’t get past.

[01:08:56] Donny: Just even sitting here and talking about all these things [01:09:00] and thinking that all of this shit happened in one fucking year.

[01:09:04] Donny: That’s wild. That’s a lifetime of problems for a lot of people. We had that in the

[01:09:11] Paige : first year. Most people don’t even, not

[01:09:13] Donny: even year. It was like the first nine months.

[01:09:14] Donny: That’s crazy. And the fact that we came out of it on the other side, in the position that we’re in right now, sitting in, the podcast studio of the business that I’m the COO of. Like we’re three weeks away from two and a half Yeah. Two and a half weeks away from having our child.

[01:09:31] Donny: There’s nothing that could stop me.

[01:09:34] Paige : Yeah.

[01:09:34] Donny: So I would say that for me, what I learned the most about you is, when we were young, we were a bit of a pain in the ass. You were a wildflower and I’m chasing you around bars, carrying your shoes. But what I’ve learned about you now is that same energy still exists within you. But because of everything [01:10:00] that you’ve faced in terms of challenges in your life that have turned you into the woman that you are today, you’re incredibly easy to love.

[01:10:08] Paige : Aw, thank you.

[01:10:08] Donny: It’s like I’ve said, yeah.

[01:10:10] Donny: This has literally been and that’s what’s crazy about it. I’ve said it multiple times that I feel like I’ve out kicked my coverage. And I do feel that way, but I had built in my head that, that was going to make this such a challenge.

[01:10:26] Donny: yeah. ‘cause you’re gonna be high maintenance or you’re gonna be needy, or you’re gonna be whatever it is. And this has literally been the easiest relationship I’ve ever been with. You’re. Do the things you ask. Don’t do the things that you ask me not to do. And then just, we live our lives together. And it’s easy because you’re happy because I do what you ask me to do and I don’t do what you ask me not to do.

[01:10:50] Paige : I got emotional because I have always felt hard to love.

[01:10:54] Donny: So easy. Dude, you’re a piece of cake.

[01:10:57] Paige : I think because of the wildness and like the [01:11:00] black sheepness of it, like I think that I always felt like with my parents that I was a burden. I was very hard.

[01:11:05] Paige : They love me, but I was hard to love. So you say I am easy love. Thank you. Yeah,

[01:11:10] Donny: of

[01:11:10] Paige : course.

[01:11:11] Donny: Our relationship. It same thing as with me. If we can go through everything we’ve been through in this nine months. What the fuck is gonna stop us?

[01:11:20] Paige : I’m really grateful for my knowledge and my, like self-education and my understanding of spirituality and how all of this works because you’re a Libra son and my south node is in Libra, which is like incredibly karmic.

[01:11:35] Paige : So you don’t usually survive. And I’m a Libra rising, so like we don’t, you don’t usually survive like a south node connection

[01:11:45] Paige : Because you’re going, you’re literally, we just, we cleared a ton of karma from whatever past life shit we have going on. Yeah. We cleared a lot of it, but a lot of people don’t make it through that.

[01:11:58] Paige : Yeah. Because it’s so hard [01:12:00] and it’s, but I knew that the same pattern kept coming up, which was. To want to run and to go escape and to go live in fantasy land of what could be. And like my life alone being a rich fuck girl again, even though I never I never wanna be in a relationship. You know what I mean?

[01:12:20] Paige : Yeah. If I’m not in a relationship with you, I don’t care to be in a relationship. Yeah. So it’s not like I was leaving to go do that, but it was just living in a fantasy and of passion and ups and downs and twists and turns. And I think I just needed to clear that.

[01:12:33] Donny: Yeah. And we, I’ve brought this up many times before and I think it’s a little known thing and it, it gets a bad rap.

[01:12:40] Donny: Boring is happiness.

[01:12:43] Paige : It’s peace. I think people get the two conflated.

[01:12:43] Donny: Yeah. I used to think that love had to be this full throttle passionate thing. And while I’m still very passionate about you and still passionate towards you. I love boring. I love just knowing that I’m gonna get home from work.

[01:12:58] Donny: I’m gonna cook dinner, [01:13:00] she’s gonna do stuff, do work stuff. I’m gonna do work stuff and

[01:13:04] Paige : and we’ll have like our weekends and our things. Yeah. And our little chaos containers. But having that foundation of a hundred

[01:13:10] Donny: percent

[01:13:11] Paige : knowing that we’ve been through so much and yeah, there’s a million possibilities of what could possibly happen, but I think that knowing how you handle it, or we just know how we automatically handle traumatic things like, I’m gonna be quiet and shut down.

[01:13:27] Speaker 3: Yep.

[01:13:28] Paige : In that, or hyper or go into like hyper vigilance. Yes. And functioning. It’s one or the other. And I know you’re probably gonna shut down. Yeah. And do whatever you need to do to escape knowing that I think. Creates a sense of consistency or I don’t even know to say it’s consistency.

[01:13:49] Paige : A certainty.

[01:13:50] Donny: Yeah. And one thing that has always aided in, when I say that I never have to question anything with you, it’s also because of how well we [01:14:00] communicate and how open we are with each other. We don’t hold anything back. When you ask a question, you’re gonna get my real answer.

[01:14:05] Donny: When I ask a question, I’m gonna get your real answer. And that allows us to really understand one another.

[01:14:12] Donny: Because in a lot of instances, people are trying to sugarcoat things or they’re trying to not hurt their partner’s feelings. We don’t play those games. If I ask you a question, I am fully prepared for that answer to kick me in the nuts.

[01:14:28] Paige : Yeah.

[01:14:29] Donny: It doesn’t always, but I’m prepared for it too. And being able to be that open with one another, once again makes our relationship easy.

[01:14:39] Paige : So we have just two questions at the end.

[01:14:42] Donny: Okay.

[01:14:42] Paige : Because pretty much November and December we made it like, there’s not much going on.

[01:14:47] Donny: Yeah. Pretty balling.

[01:14:48] Paige : Yeah. Balling out. So what was the most unfair thing that I said to you or did to you during this year? And it’s not necessarily, it doesn’t have to be logically unfair. What did you [01:15:00] feel? I was, where I was unfair.

[01:15:02] Donny: Yeah, not, definitely not logically unfair, but when, and I don’t remember the exact wording on it, but when it was like, yeah, you might be at a point where you just need to suck it up and get something coming in, like drive DoorDash, do this and logically you’re right. A hundred percent.

[01:15:21] Paige : Yeah.

[01:15:22] Donny: But like at the time and the space I was in, I was not ready to hear that. Once again, as somebody who has built a lot of their persona around their career, that seemed to me like that would’ve been me allowing hopelessness in

[01:15:40] Paige : Yeah.

[01:15:42] Donny: So while logically that wasn’t unfair, it hit me as unfair.

[01:15:49] Paige : Yeah. Got it. Yeah. I mean your feelings are valid. I knew, that’s why I wanted to make a differentiation between logic and feeling, because I think it’s pretty logically fair.

[01:15:59] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[01:15:59] Paige : A hundred percent to [01:16:00] ask how you’re gonna go bring money in. Absolutely. But I also know like it probably didn’t feel fair ‘cause you’re doing everything you know how to do within.

[01:16:08] Paige : Your perception of the world and what you think you should be doing.

[01:16:11] Paige : Yep.

[01:16:12] Paige : And then the last question is, if the roles were reversed and you told her me, wait six months to see if I want you, would I have stayed?

[01:16:21] Donny: Not a fucking chance. No. You would’ve thrown up the deuces and been out that door so quick.

[01:16:28] Paige : Yeah. I would’ve held the door and allowed you to leave.

[01:16:31] Donny: Yeah. Yeah. Same difference. But yeah, no, that would’ve never happened.

[01:16:35] Paige : You think that’s fair?

[01:16:37] Donny: I don’t think it’s unfair.

[01:16:39] Paige : Huh?

[01:16:39] Donny: I think that’s just too human beings reacting to a situation in different ways.

[01:16:44] Paige : Yeah.

[01:16:45] Donny: To completely different people who have different minds who view the world in we can both admit vastly different ways.

[01:16:52] Speaker 3: Yeah.

[01:16:53] Donny: And I think it’s a situation where, to me. [01:17:00] While that upset me, I took it as a challenge to prove myself Yeah. That I was the right person for you.

[01:17:10] Paige : And I as a woman would never, at this stage, not that I have never done this, I’ve, I have done this.

[01:17:14] Paige : That’s my, that was my issue at this stage of my life, would never try and prove myself or my worthiness or convince you or talk you into staying. I would absolutely be like, that’s fair. That’s valid. You’re not sure. I think you should go.

[01:17:29] Donny: Yep, a hundred percent.

[01:17:31] Paige : And if you change your mind, and I’m still here, we could have a conversation, but

[01:17:36] Donny: Yeah.

[01:17:36] Donny: There’s

[01:17:36] Paige : never a guarantee like, you leave for a week. You never know.

[01:17:39] Donny: Yeah. No, I’d have had to been fucking crazy to think that I could say something like that and you’d be like, okay, let’s just see how it goes.

[01:17:45] Donny: Yeah. I get fucking right. Yeah.

[01:17:49] Paige : Sure. Thank you. Thank you. Did you, is there anything else that you wanna add that you think that we didn’t go?

[01:17:56] Donny: Thank you. No we really dredged it all up [01:18:00] here. I love it. Yeah.

[01:18:01] Paige : Good. We have to get going. We have Ruby’s birthday party. I had to pick up the cupcakes.

[01:18:06] Donny: I have to eat cupcakes.

[01:18:08] Paige : I’m just looking forward to the pizza, so thank you.

[01:18:11] Donny: All right,

[01:18:11] Paige : love you. Love

you.

When 2025 started to take the form of the bully who made my life a living hell in 4th grade, when it made me think I am a loser, that I must be doing something wrong over and over and over again in the most physically and mentally anguishing ways, I did what I do. I locked myself away. I locked myself away in my room but I also locked myself away from the world and community I created online.

I don’t know that I necessarily made things look like they were perfect, nor did I walk around like I was filled with bubblegum and cotton candy, but I absolutely wasn’t going to show a moment of weakness or insecurity. Which I’m sure was still felt because you can’t actually hide those things.

So when someone asked how the South Node in Virgo this year was for me (with my Virgo stellium and heavy Mercurial chart), it was the first time I not only really reflected (mostly because it’s been one foot in front of the other, eyes up and forward for so long) but shared EVERYTHING we went through. In a 60-second story so quick that I couldn’t possibly go into detail and let you think I didn’t have it together the whole time, of course.

The response of shock from so many of you made me realize I had locked myself away, that the intimacy and the honesty that makes me me had been hidden under “teaching” and lessons and offers around business growth and the safety of keeping it profesh.

I asked myself how I want to start 2026 and this new chapter of my life (welcoming my third child at the end of January) and it was open and honest. I don’t want to hide any part of me. I don’t want to try to protect a future version of me from losing the game. I want to officially step out of the right/wrong, win/loser game entirely and live on my acres of diamonds as me, as I can be, taking full responsibility for every single thing in my reality.

So I’m going to share the sequence of events, what was really going on, how I was feeling, how I got through it, and anything else there is to share with you. Most of all I hope you see the world differently by the end and that you become more of you, too. (BARSSSS.)

JANUARY 2025

One morning in the middle of January, I was sitting in front of my favorite morning window (where you can see the sunrise over the field across the street) and realized that my boobs hurt and I was a little too tired considering I had just woken up.

Thankfully, a pregnancy test had made it with the kids and me to the new house during the move the month before. I had JUST moved into my dream house on the river with an acre of land as a single mom.

In this piece I won’t be getting into how I went from single in December to pregnant and married (spoiler alert) by Feb 4th, but it’s a good one and it’s not as irresponsible and chaotic as it sounds. Only a little chaotic. Just know that at this point I am dating this man who would become my husband for approximately two weeks before I take this test that has apparently been waiting for this moment and see two lines.

Now if my math maths, then I am annoyingly early in finding this out and now I have to tell a man I have just reconnected with (biblically only twice) that he is now going to be a father.

He’s very happy. Who wouldn’t want to lock this in, let’s be honest. I am scared. At this point I was very happily single, happier in my body and my life than I had ever been. The kids and I were in the best spot in our relationship that we had ever been. We had this structure and routine and now, baby. Seven years after my youngest was born I would be starting over.

I was scared and excited in equal measure because I knew that no matter what, I could do this. I didn’t think for one minute that just because I was having this baby it meant I was locked into ANYTHING I didn’t want to be. So now I just had to get clear on, did I want to be?

By the end of January I had come around to exclusivity with him as far as dating was concerned, knowing we would be engaged as soon as I gave the word. After many conversations around me being able to change my mind (I just needed to know that if I did change my mind about being married or how that marriage looked, he would be open to that conversation), we were married by Feb 4th.

Which is the same week I dealt the first blow.

FEBRUARY 2025

We woke up on Feb 3rd ready to get married. We sat on the same couch that I had sat on that morning in January and discussed my exit clause (lol) and decided we would head to the courthouse that day and then to the third-party ultrasound appointment I had booked for us. Because OBGYN offices don’t get you in for your first appointment and ultrasound until you’re basically 20 weeks and you have to live in the void of uncertainty and anxiety until then. That was the plan.

We got to the courthouse and realized we couldn’t get married the same day we got the application and that we had to find the officiant, so we were not getting married that day. I think we were both a little worried that given one more night the hormones might take over and change my mind.

We drove to the ultrasound place and I refused to look at him. I knew this was his first of many firsts and I was afraid of disappointing him, so I just kept to myself. Quiet and eyes forward. Eyes forward onto a huge, unavoidable black screen where we could see in 4K that there was nothing to see.

The tech said I was probably just earlier than I thought and the doctor’s office said my HCG levels were rising but they weren’t high enough to show anything, so that was probably it. I didn’t believe that was the case so I started to cope.

With food and information.

We sat at Roosters in silence for the most part while I googled and ChatGPT’d the possibilities to death, but there wasn’t any amount of information that was going to satisfy the gaping hole of knowing and the guilt I felt for getting his hopes up and then letting him down. I couldn’t stand to look at him anymore and I just wanted to get home to my room and lock the door.

On the way there we got a call from the mayor, who we wanted to officiate. She had a last-minute spot in her schedule the next day. Did we want it?

DID WE WANT IT?

Did I WANT IT?

If there was no baby, did. I. want. it? That was now the question on repeat over, throbbing over and over in my head yet somehow choking me, for the rest of the night. We told her to hold the spot just in case.

He took the longest walk of his life and I sat in my bed crying. Was I crying because I was sad that the future I was planning on wasn’t happening? Was I relieved because now I was free and clear to say “ope you know what, this isn’t for me”? Guilty for feeling that way? Angry that I was here in this position either way?

I cried. I told him everything I was thinking and feeling. And I think because of how he handled it, how steady and available and communicative and supportive he was when I was NOT being any of the things I pride myself in being, the fact I could just spin out and be irrational and unfair and ugly and I didn’t have to hold it together for everyone in order to feel a sense of safety, I decided I did want it.

We were married the next day, February 4th, and we agree it was one of our most favorite days together. And we have known each other since we were 18 and 22, we have had a lot of great days. I was pregnant, we were married, and we were happy. He headed back up to his place in Cleveland where I would follow in the next few days.

Then I got the phone call. HCG levels were dropping and I could expect to miscarry in the next few days.

A part of me was relieved to have that confirmation and some semblance of a plan. I think the day of the ultrasound I had pre-grieved and now it was confirmed. As I miscarried at his place for the next two days, I felt the physical pain of the loss while simultaneously grateful to this little soul for what it had facilitated. I would NOT be where I was, with who I was, as the person I was without it.

When it comes to death, I have lost a lot of friends and it has changed my relationship to it. I don’t stay in grief long because it’s at its core a form of self-pity and more so about my personal loss, and I don’t want to disrespect that soul’s choice. Death is as personal as life. We can never know why they are on the journey they are on, but we can respect it and appreciate how their presence changed our life.

So that’s where I tried to stay in between the cramping and tears. Gratitude and respect and appreciation. This was not happening to me, it was happening with them and for me.

This perspective would be very important to hold as the events of March would unfold.

MARCH 2025

At the end of December I sold a Winter Arc retreat here at my home in Ohio and the ladies were on their way! My husband is a culinary school dropout who still loves to cook so I hired him to cook for us for the weekend.

On night two after we had dinner, we stayed up until about 12pm sipping cocktails and chatting before we decided to head to bed for a day/night out on the town the next day.

Around 1pm my husband knocked on the door of the guest bedroom (to save my sleep from his snoring that night.) I has just heard him getting sick (he never gets sick from a few drinks) and when he came in he looked pale and said his arm was hurting and he thought he might be having a heart attack.

So. I have been here before actually. My senior year of high school, I woke up to a call from my Mom who had left quickly in the middle of the night to take my dad to the ER due to a heart attack. My job was to find my brother, gather my little sister and get to the hospital because we didn’t really know much at the time. He did make it after they placed a stint and he is still with us today— solely because of my Mother getting him there in time.

I got up calmly, put my shoes on, grabbed my keys and didn’t say much outside of checking in on how he was doing during that 9 minute drive. He was 41 so I think mostly he was in shock because how many 41 year olds are having heart attacks? I didn’t allow myself to think of anything other than the best possible outcome which helped me stay centered, which helped him stay calm which really helps your blood pressure ya know?

Once we get there we learn that he is absolutely having some type of heart event and he is taken by ambulance to a much bigger hospital with a better cardio team.

Long story short, he walked away with a few pills and lifestyle changes. They said there was no damage to his heart from the event and that he needed to follow-up with a cardiologist and primary.

Best. Case. Scenario.

At this point I have been a wife for 2 seconds and I already having to make phone calls and faced with maybe having to make some very hard decisions if the best case didn’t happen.

I think this is the point I started to shut down a little and disassociate. It seemed like every time things were “good” and I would share about it something shocking would happen and because the blows were back to back, my body didn’t have the time to regulate in order to alchemize whatever energy we were dealing with.

I just felt some solace in the fact that we had obviously been through the worst of it, right? ….

APRIL 2025

The first few weeks of April were relatively calm (as much as I can remember) and mostly my focus was getting back into the swing of things with my business. I had given myself some time to grieve and my hormones were finally finding their baseline again so I could create and focus at the level I was used to.

It was really helpful having his income to supplement. For the first time since before I started my business, I wasn’t solely responsible for every single bill being paid and all of the experiences or myself and the kids.

2022-2024 had been especially hard financially after we discovered my mold poisoning (through symptoms of depression and exhaustion) so although I was making money, it wasn’t at the level of what I was used to and a lot of it was going to pay to keep myself well and in a home that wasn’t killing me. The savings and investments I had went to getting well and keeping up with the financial commitments I had made before all of that. So having the supplemental income during the first few months of 2025 was a blessing.

If you remember, April is also when the tariffs hit and many industries (the job market along with it) changed overnight. Donny just so happens to be on the corporate side of manufacturing so he knew there were issues when they put a moratorium on travel, considering he traveled 10 months out of every year usually.

A last minute call was put on his calendar and that is when they let him know they were laying off his entire department.

Very annoying of course but we weren’t’ THAT concerned since he was always being headhunted by other corporations and turning down jobs at equal or more pay often (we learned a lot about loyalty to corporations through this.)

Turns out this job market would be (outside of early Covid days,) by some measures the worst job market since the aftermath of the Great Recession.

MAY 2025

May wasn’t so bad other than we learned how horrible the job market was and my husband had to deal with the ego blow that comes with that. To go from being headhunted and sought after to a gazillion rounds of interviews that didn’t pan out, thousands of resumes sent, and the depression that comes with having had your entire self-image wrapped up in your career accomplishments and the pressure of now having a wife and two children he wanted to provide a great life for.

My work was not collapsing or contracting around it. I had to make sure I wasn’t making his stuff my stuff, that I wasn’t Mothering, that I wasn’t raging when I would see him double-cheeked up on the couch while I was up and at ‘em. I have A VERY STRONG HISTORY of losing myself in other people, giving them all of my magical energy (through focus) and then resenting myself and them.

So I knew what this moment in time was and I finally felt emotionally and mentally strong enough to shift this identity forever and repattern some long-standing patterns and neuropathways.

I was proud of myself, honestly. For the first time in my life I was holding my center while someone I loved was “falling apart” (for dramatic effect). I wasn’t collapsing into their story. I wasn’t making their pain mine.

And then... June.

JUNE 2025

I can’t remember what made me grab the test from the store. My period hadn’t been regular since the miscarriage so I wasn’t concerned about being late and I didn’t feel pregnant.

In fact, I was CERTAIN I wasn’t.

It was just kind of like a confirmation of that certainty, you know? So one morning I remembered I had bought the test and decided to casually take it.

For the first time in my Virgo life, I was wrong.

Maybe I just really didn’t want to be pregnant? Not because it’s not a blessing, but because we were quite literally in the seventh layer of hell at the time and I had JUST started to feel like myself again, which meant I knew I would get myself out.

I walked downstairs and just held the test up.

I don’t really have words for his face but I would say they matched what I was feeling on the inside. Surprise, excitement, fear, and a little bit of “are you fucking kidding me?” We had decided to wait on even discussing having another baby and just enjoy being married and stabilizing.

Now, we all know how pregnancies happen, but since all of this had been going down it’s not like we were ripping each other’s clothes off at the rate we had been and without being intentional.

Turns out it was Mother’s Day weekend and after a few too many White Claws.

I said something along the lines of “I am not sad. I am happy and nothing changes. I am going to move like I have been moving, we are going to keep moving like we have been moving. What happened before is not happening again.”

It was a declaration and a demand to God.

It heard me but I should have been more specific...

JULY 2025

At this point the pregnancy is progressing and this pregnancy, as far as the baby is concerned, is noticeably much healthier than the last.

We had our first OB-GYN appointment in July because I guess they make you wait until you’re like 20 weeks pregnant before they will see you. Again, dramatic hyperbole, but coming off a miscarriage, waiting SO long to have the first appointment was brutal.

Prior to this appointment I had been experiencing no real will to live outside of my children. I couldn’t find happy. I couldn’t find joy. I couldn’t find any free-floating hope. I was just taking it a day at a time and isolating myself from my husband and the rest of the world.

So when I had to fill out the initial paperwork, I knew as I answered the questions around my mental health that I was clearly not going to “pass” IF I was honest. During that appointment we found out the due date and we also got a diagnosis.

I was due February 4th. Do you remember that date? And I was told I had prenatal depression.

She recommended medication and I requested that they allow me to “thug it out” (verbatim) until my next appointment and if I was still feeling this way, I would consider their advisement. Which is how I look at all doctors—advisors, not authorities. I decided by next appointment I would be feeling better and now I just needed to do what I needed to do.

This is my work. I have helped thousands of people change their lives, their diagnoses, and their “rock bottoms” into new identities and worlds. I had to be able to help myself. I had to prove to myself that my work WORKS always and the pressure of that was immense, especially when you’re depressed.

And that pressure cooker would finally explode in August.

AUGUST 2025

For an update, at this point my husband is still very much unemployed and very much depressed as well, although his ability to put me and the kids first while silently dying inside is commendable. Unfortunately for us both, I am highly sensitive so the more he’s holding in his emotions, the more power wattage they carry and the more I feel them. And so now I am working to transmute my own energy, reprogram my mind, adopt new “not depressed” habits while also not allowing myself to collapse from his energy.

I don’t think either of us have ever felt this dense and powerless in our lives.

And roof is still over our heads, our kids are fed and the baby is healthy and I still loved my work in the world and was blessed to not rely on a 9-5. I was holding onto those things every single day.

On a Friday around 5pm I got in my car to drive to pick up the kids who live about a mile-ish down the road with their dad 50% of the time. Again, SUPER grateful we found homes we love so close to each other.

As I am mindlessly driving down the country road like I do every other friday without though, a coyote sized animal runs in front of my car. I didn’t swerve but I did break and that meant my back tires sent me into the opposite direction. I over corrected and was swerving again.

I lost control and ended up in a ditch and then eventually a electric pole. Had I NOT ended up in the ditch first I would have hit that pole at full speed on the ONE day I hadn’t put my seatbelt on.

I did not have my phone so a passerby had to allow me to borrow his to call for help. I was able to drive the car back home until we realized the radiator and as soon as I pulled into the drive way it was clear the radiotor was shot. The front bumper, lights and hood would all need cosmetic work.

And it turns out when I switched bank cards that I forgot to change the autopay for my insurance so it has lapsed so this would alllll be out of pocket.

But I walked away with a cut on my foot.

A CUT ON MY FOOT.

The baby was fine. I was fine. The car would eventually would be fine. Even the fucking coyote was fine.

As bad as everything had been it was just made clear to me that it could have been worse. Like the ultimate worse and it wasn’t.

I carried that with into September.

SEPTEMBER 2025

After what seems like a lifetime in the corporate job market, my husbands perspective started to change. I think he started to open up to the possibility of doing something outside of that space and that maybe the thing he felt was the least risky move he could make, was actually no less risky than stepping out of it.

My friend owned a company that way always looking for good sales associates and I also happen to know he was down operations support so although Donny had zero experience IN sales, he was charming and brilliant and if nothing else could probably also support my friend in operations casually while he learned.

So just like that he was employed.

And I still felt like I wasn’t sure this marriage would work.

It felt like if this was right then WHY did every singular thing go wrong? And who wants to be married to someone that wants to be alone in her room 90% of the time, doesn’t want to be touched and can barely crack a smile. I had started to feel my mental health improve in the context of myself, my career and my future but in the context of relationship and being a wife I was still very much drowning.

One thing about me and really, about us, is that we are going to have the hard conversation. I am going to say the honest and hard thing because I think that is love. Love for myself and love for the other person.

In those conversations the sentiment was mostly that I am not sure if me questioning the marriage was my hormones or if it was truly what I wanted. We had seen the worst of each other this last year and I think deep down someone seeing me that way made me want to run and seeing him struggle and maybe not handle things the way I would have handled it (like the complete opposite) added to that.

I was essentially saying to this man who had been through hell with me this year, who had seen the darkest, grossest parts of me and loved me through them “you’re going to have to wait 6 more months, if not more in order to find out if I even want to be with you and you can’t be dick or distant because them you’re a bad man because I am pregnant. Okay!?”

He said he felt like I wanted to be a fractional wife, have small moments of intimacy and marriage when I wanted them and then to go and do whatever I wanted. He wasn’t wrong and this wasn’t news to me.

My matrix destiny goes deep into my karmic past of choosing passion and drama and fantasy over a stable, consistent love.

Now I was being faced with the most stable, consistent love imaginable and I had to choose …. again.

One final time.

OCTOBER 2025

I wish I could tell you the day I decided but I can’t.

It was unremarkable (but remarkable) moment that I chose stability and allowing myself to be loved and cared for over the need for passion, emotional ups and downs and living in a world of fantasy over HAVING everything here that is for me.

I loved myself enough to allow myself to be loved. I’d argue he is the physical representation of the love, respect and esteem I finally have for myself.

When I decided that, the world started to stabilize around me. Almost as if I had created all of this drama to give myself one last high and to affirm what I truly desired and believed.

Donny started getting job offers from larger corporations willing to pay him 3x what he was making but he had found a new passion in working with this smaller (but) mighty company and to see his work create REAL impact and support a leader he believes. He was quicccklllly promoted to COO (a role that takes a lot longer than it did for him to reach) and he was feeling like himself again.

I realized how important “boring” and stable was to me reaching my dreams and how the unsexy tasks like having trusts, making sure autopay got transferred over, strategic investments, paying taxes etc were ACTUALLY freedom to me since I had spent my whole life rebelling against it. Every time I wanted to go for something HUGE over the years those things were in my subconscious keeping me from going for it.

NOVEMBER & DECEMBER 2025

Nothing really. It’s been… calm (as I say that a little residual fear of the ball dropping popped up to be looked at.) One day after the other of letting go of things and preparing for what we want to create in 2026 as well as prepping for the birth of the baby.

Which might be the most radical thing of all after a year like this one.

I spent so much of 2025 locked in my room, replaying how things should have gone, fantasizing about different outcomes, almost drowning in the depths of powerlessness. Almost. The closer I got to drowning the more power I realized was there for me to reclaim.

And now here I am. Married to a man I chose not because the pregnancy forced my hand, but because I finally loved myself enough to accept stable, consistent love that is devoted and adoring. Pregnant with a baby due on our wedding anniversary (and the week we lost the first pregnancy.) Living in this beautiful house with my three kids. Watching my husband thrive in work he actually loves. Building a life that is maybe a little boring based on my former rich fuck girl standards but it’s beautiful and it’s mine.

I created this.

I spent days in the spring of 2024 walking neighborhoods on the water intentionally manifesting this man, this life, this baby, this family and this care. I remember a particularly rough period and crying to my Mother (who I would NOT have survived this season without) and her getting emotional and saying “I just want you to be with someone who takes care of YOU, not the other way around.”

And because we can choose any outcome we want but we can’t choose the how, the South Node in Virgo came for my perfectionism, my need for control, my pattern of choosing drama over devotion. It stripped away every fantasy I was holding onto about how my life should look and left me with what actually is.

And what actually is, is better than anything I could have imagined in that locked room.

Part 2 of this series will dive deep into the specific work I did to get here. The practices, the reprogramming, the identity shifts that moved me from prenatal depression and questioning my marriage to choosing stability and freedom. That will be available to free and paid subscribers.

Part 3 will feature my husband Donny’s perspective on each of these months—what it was like to go through all of this from his side, what he was really thinking and feeling, and how he handled loving someone who wasn’t sure she wanted to be loved and was brutal about it. That will be available exclusively to paid subscribers.

If this story resonated with you, if you’ve ever found yourself locked in your room (real or metaphorical) replaying how things should have gone, if you’re tired of choosing chaos over what’s actually here for you….I hope you’ll stick around for what comes next.

The one you never even wrote. The thoughts you had in the shower, the patterns you’ve been noticing but haven’t named out loud, the version of yourself you’re becoming but haven’t told anyone about yet.

If the algorithm feels like it’s gotten a little too good at knowing you, you’re not imagining it.

This isn’t social media. It’s not personal branding. It’s not even “content” in the way we used to mean it. It’s mirror media and the new game is intimacy by interest.

The algorithm isn’t showing people posts anymore. It’s showing them themselves. And some people really don’t like it.

If you haven’t felt this shift in your bones yet, you’re about to. Because this isn’t an evolution of platforms. It’s a rewrite of what it means to be perceived. To connect. To build a business on the internet.

The companies still optimizing for engagement are about to lose to creators optimizing for recognition and resonance. And most of them don’t even know the game has changed.

The Evolution = Social → Interest → Identity

Let’s walk through the eras. Because most people are still playing by the rules of the past, still posting the same things I was posting for clients in my first business in 2013 (I wish I was kidding) and wondering why the present market just keeeeeeps scrolling.

The Social Era (2007–2018): “Follow people you know.”

It was all connection, not content. Facebook friends, college roommates, vacation photos from people you shared a dorm with. You followed her because you knew her, not because you cared about beaches or her thoughts on work-life balance.

It was about turning real life proximity into digital proximity. Not purpose.

The Interest Era (2018–2022): “Follow people who teach what you want.”

Then came the experts. The frameworks. The productivity sermons and the five-step systems. TikTok exploded and suddenly everyone was a niche evangelist.

You followed the pasta girl, the finance bro, the woman who swore she could teach you to wake up at 5am without hating yourself. Expertise became currency. The creator economy was born. The logic was beautifully simple (I kinda miss it) more content = more reach = more revenue.

The content was about the creator’s message and their methods.

The Identity Era (2023–now): “Follow people who reflect who you are now and who you’re becoming.”

Then something cracked.

Comments shifted from “great post!” to “this is literally me” and “I feel so seen.” People stopped saving content because it was useful. They started saving it because it felt like them. Viral content stopped spreading through humor or how-to value and started spreading through something harder to name…identity resonance.

You’re not following people who impress you anymore. You’re following people who make you feel less alone in who you are and who you (sometimes secretly) want to become.

We’ve entered a mirror economy, the algorithm is the engineer and you are the architect.

TikTok processes a billion hours a day, yet 68% of deep engagement now comes from micro-interactions. The pauses, the replays, the quiet, obsessive loops where you watch the same ten seconds three times because someone just said the thing you’ve been thinking but couldn’t articulate.

It’s not measuring attention anymore. It’s measuring emotional responses.

People don’t follow creators who entertain them. They don’t even follow the ones who educate them. They follow the ones who make them feel intimately understood.

Why Now!? The Convergence

Ok but why now? Why does your FYP feel like a therapy session you didn’t book?

Because three forces just collided at once and most people are only tracking one of them.

Picture this: You’re scrolling at 11pm, blue light warming your face, and you land on a video of a woman talking about something that has nothing to do with you. Except it does. She’s talking about her relationship with her mother, or money shame, or the specific flavor of ambition that makes you feel guilty for wanting more.

And your thumb freezes. Because somehow she just said the exact thing you’ve been thinking but didn’t have words for yet.

This no accident. That’s three systems learning to speak your language at once.

The Tech, Tech is Identity Algorithms

The algorithm isn’t just tracking what you click anymore. It’s learning how you recognize yourself in others.

Every scroll, pause, replay, screenshot — it’s all data. But not the data you think. It’s not measuring “engagement.” It’s mapping your meaning-making patterns. Your emotional spikes. The moments when you feel seen.

Here’s what that looks like:

You open Instagram. You scroll past a glossy vacation photo — your brain registers nothing. Then you see a founder sharing how they almost quit last year, how they sat in their car and cried before a client call, how they’re still not sure they’re doing it right.

You pause.

That familiar ache in your chest: “That’s me. Someone finally gets it.”

That pause? That’s your recognition trigger being activated. And the AI just logged it. What it validated (your struggle is normal). What question it answered (am I doing this right?). What identity it reinforced (resilient founder, still figuring it out).

Your feed becomes a customized intimacy system, algorithmically generated to reflect your internal narrative back to you with increasing precision.

It’s not showing you content. It’s showing you you.

The Culture and The Crisis of Being Seen

We’re living through a crisis of recognition.

Meme pages are more trusted than news outlets. People follow creators based on vibe, not credentials. Parasocial relationships feel more real than the ones happening in your group chat.

When traditional structures fragment — religion, community, shared cultural narratives, the idea that we’re all watching the same three TV shows — people start looking elsewhere for the answer to one burning question:

“Does anyone actually see who I am?”

Not who I’m performing as. Not who I’m supposed to be. Who I actually am, in the 3am thoughts and the shower realizations and the quiet terror that maybe I’m the only one who feels this way.

The algorithm learned to answer that question better than most humans can.

The “Human” Tech is The Identity Imperative

And then there’s the thing some of you will roll your eyes at and some of you will feel in your bones. Astrology, numerology, matrix destiny, human design are all technologies and we don’t typically think about these when we think about technology or the rise of it, but we really really should.

We’re in Pluto in Aquarius (2023–2043).

A 20-year cycle of collective transformation through technology and identity systems. Major infrastructure shifts happen during Pluto transits. Pluto in Capricorn (2008-2024)? That was institutions crumbling… banks, governments, the illusion of corporate loyalty.

Pluto in Aquarius? This time, the infrastructure being rebuilt is selfhood itself.

Add North Node in Aries (2023–2025) and you get another layer which is radical individuation, pioneering identity, being first in your own life. The cosmic weather is demanding that we stop performing someone else’s version of success or trying to keep up or even fit in and start transmitting our actual frequency.

You can dismiss astrology. But you can’t dismiss the pattern.

Three systems — tech technology, culture, and “human” tech are all saying the same thing at once:

Your personal frequency is your brand. And the infrastructure finally exists to intentionally leverage and reward exactly that.

How Meaning-Making Moved Underground

Before we talk about mechanics, let’s look at what’s actually happening on the platforms themselves.

Instagram’s own data confirms the shift.

Adam Mosseri dropped this bomb in a recent interview: “There are way more photos and videos shared into DMs than into stories, and way more photos and videos are shared into stories than into the feed.”

Read that again. People aren’t expressing themselves through public posting anymore. They’re expressing themselves through sending memes, through stories that disappear, through private messages to people who are interested and understand them and Instagram is optimizing for it.

The feed isn’t where meaning-making happens anymore. It’s where recognition happens.

You scroll the feed to find content that feels like you, then you send it to someone who will get why it feels like you or help them understand YOU a little more. The meaning isn’t in the post itself - it’s in the act of selecting and sharing it with someone with another human.

This is the algorithm mapping meaning-making. Not just what you like. What you recognize

And then there’s what happens when someone cracks the code on this.

Hailey Bieber didn’t just build a skincare brand. She built an entire aesthetic universe.

Rhode Beauty became the physical manifestation of the “clean girl aesthetic” - and Hailey embodied it so completely that you literally couldn’t separate the brand from the lifestyle. In 2025, she sold it for $1 billion.

But here’s what most people miss about Rhode’s success: It wasn’t selling skincare. It was selling belonging. When you bought Rhode, you were buying into a world - one that was clean, minimal, effortlessly cool. You were buying the right to fully own and recognize yourself in that aesthetic.

The brand became a window you could step through.

After Hailey launched “strawberry girl” makeup, the hashtag exploded to hundreds of millions of views. Then came latte makeup. Tomato girl. Mob wife aesthetic. Each one an identifiable visual package.

We are at the point where we can literally tell who someone follows based on how they appear.

That’s not simply “ influence.” It’s an identity infrastructure.

One analyst nailed it: “Consumers are fundamentally motivated by the desire for accessible self-expression and to align with a specific aesthetic.” It’s not about the blush. It’s about what the blush means abut them. And what it means upholds a certain identity and feedback loop.

What This Actually Looks Like

The pattern is everywhere once you see it, you really can’t unsee it.

• Someone posts about their morning routine → You save it because it feels like the person you’re trying to become

• A founder shares how they almost quit → You screenshot it because it validates your struggle

• A creator talks about their interest in something niche → You follow them because “finally, someone else gets it”

We’re not just following people anymore because we like them or have any loyalty. We’re collecting identity markers. We’re building ourselves through curation.

And the algorithm has learned to serve this need with terrifying precision.

How Mirror Media Actually Works

Let’s talk about what’s really going on when you can’t stop watching the same video on a loop.

Most people think the algorithm favors consistency, value, hooks, and engagement. That was true in 2020. It’s not true anymore.

Here’s what I’m watching happen in real time:

Stage 1: The Algorithm is Tracking Shit You Don’t Even Know You’re Doing

Micro-behaviors you’re not conscious of:

How long you pause on specific words that land differently

Which phrases you screenshot vs. scroll past

Replay patterns on the sections that make you feel something

Speed adjustments, caption reads, the tone of your comments

You think you’re just scrolling but you’re actually confessing (and I know that one hurrrtttttt lol)

It’s not learning what you like. It’s learning how you recognize and think of yourself.

Stage 2: Building Your Intimacy Profile

The AI builds a profile of your intimacy triggers. It learns:

• What validates you (confidence, belonging, being ahead, being normal)

• What questions are you asking (Am I behind? Am I broken? Am I alone in this?)

• What identity you’re building (founder, healer, disruptor, woman who left, woman who stayed and a bunch of other things.)

The algorithm becomes fluent in your internal dialogue. The one you’re having with yourself at 2am. The one you don’t say out loud.

Stage 3: Your Feed as Algorithmically Curated Intimacy

Your feed isn’t random. It’s the feed you would create if you were a creator. It’s your thoughts, reflected back.

You’re shown creators who speak your internal narrative with eerie precision. It’s like the AI took your journal, ran it through pattern recognition, and started showing you everyone else who’s writing the same sentences.

Stage 4: The Identity Addiction Loop

You see yourself. You engage deeply. You feel understood. Dopamine hits 2.5x stronger than surface-level content. You come back for more recognition. The loop tightens.

The deepest intimacy happens when someone feels completely understood without having to explain themselves.

The algorithm is now optimized to create exactly that at scale, in your pocket, at 11pm when you’re supposed to be sleeping.

And the question I don’t see a lot of people asking yet…

Is the algorithm reflecting who we are or reinforcing who we’re becoming? OR both.

Because if it’s the second one, we’re not just in a new era of media. We’re in a new era of identity formation itself.

And whoever understands how to engineer that recognition? They’re not just building audiences.

They’re building belief systems.

Why Most Companies Are Losing (While Accidental Creators Win)

I’ve worked with dozens of companies over the last decade. Most of them are still using strategies from 2013. They have no idea what’s happening.

Here’s what I’ve watched play out for my own business as well of thousands of others…

For a season, I talked about coffee enemas after mold poisoning. Just genuinely curious about the health implications, sharing what I was learning and what was working for me. No mentioned of my business or expertise in that video.

But because this woman felt understood, she was going through a similar journey, she engaged in certain ways with my content and then was fed more of it. Before she knew it she was heading over to instagram, looking at the link in bio and realizing “oh wait she’s in business he can help me there too. And I feel an intimate connection with her already” and asked ME how she could pay me.

After my divorce, I created content about dating after my marriage ended. I was processing, learning, and applying. At one point I did partner with my coaches and do a course but what happened was I landed multiple five-figure BUSINESS clients from dating content. Not business strategy content. Dating content.

You can spend $30k on a brand photoshoot and get polite engagement, a few “yassss girls” or you can talk about something you actually care about and land a client who feels like they already know you and are getting to know THEMSELVES better.

“But what about me, my product, my my my”

They don’t care. Lol …yet

The customer journey is no longer linear or time based.

What Companies Optimize For:

• Brand voice guidelines

• CTA conversion rates

• Funnel performance metrics

• “Talking about our services”

• “Addressing the pain points”

• “Showcasing the transformation”

What Audiences Filter For:

• Identity recognition

• Emotional familiarity

• Vibe compatibility

• Resonance moments

You can and should post about your services. I love measuring the data. It just can’t be first priority.

Let me give you another example. We have a roofing company in our portfolio. Nobody’s interest is roofing (except other roofers). You can’t optimize for attention around shingles and gutters.

Sure, people search for solutions. If you use the right SEO, they’ll find your content during a search. But that’s not efficient. That’s not the game anymore.

Here’s what we CAN do. Train the team to create content around their actual interests, what makes them them, and the interests of people who might need a roof fixed. We’re landing on feeds through identity resonance, not product relevance.

Now we have a team of 15+ influencers, each with their unique traits, building intimacy points with thousands of people. They’re at job sites. Sharing their day. Wearing the logo.

Who do you think people are going to remember and trust when it comes time for a new roof?

We’re not optimizing for followers or attention anymore. We’re optimizing for interest. For recognition. For intimacy.

And most companies don’t even know the game has changed.

We Live in the Inversion (or “The Upside Down”) Why Recognition Actually Converts

Here’s what breaks most people’s brains about mirror media:

Your post isn’t trying to get people to buy your thing.

Your post is an offering of proof to the algorithm - proof of why it should even put you on a feed in the first place.

The old model was trying to live upside down. Approach the post to sell first, consider connecting later. Pitch before recognition. Ask before you give, even if just energetically.

We’ve corrected.

The algorithm is becoming less of a system and more of a mirror of original design. And the original design has always been this:

Decide what you want. Then decide what you’re willing to give. And give that first. Freely.

How This Actually Leads to Business

Let me be clear. You CAN post about what you’re selling. You SHOULD have ways for people to dive deeper. Clear offers, visible links, obvious next steps.

But the order has changed.

The Old Funnel:

1. Get attention (hook, value, pain point)

2. Nurture (prove expertise, build trust)

3. Offer (here’s how I can help you)

4. Convert (buy now)

The New Flow:

1. Put out the signal (this is what I notice, care about, think)

2. Create recognition (”this is literally me”)

3. They seek you out (DM, profile click, link click)

4. Offer becomes obvious (of course this is what you do)

The mechanism:

When someone feels deeply recognized by your content about coffee enemas or dating after divorce or the specific way ambition makes you feel guilty - they don’t think “I need to buy from this person.”

They think: “This person understands me. I wonder what else they do.”

And THEN they go looking. They click your profile. They check your link. They DM you asking if you work with people like them.

You’re not interrupting them with an offer. They’re seeking you out because recognition creates curiosity.

The ROI of Intimacy

My five-figure clients didn’t come from my “here’s how I can help your business” content. They came from:

Coffee enema content (health journey recognition)

Dating content (identity transition recognition)

Mold poisoning content (struggle recognition)

These people didn’t need convincing. They were already convinced - because they felt seen.

The sale was almost a formality.

Traditional marketing: Cold audience → Warm audience → Hot audience → Conversion (maybe)

Mirror media: Recognition → Identity resonance → “I need to know more about you” → Conversion (likely)

The conversion rate is higher because you’re not converting strangers. You’re serving people who already feel like they know you.

What This Means Practically

Yes, talk about your offers. Make it clear what you do and who you serve.

But lead with a signal, not sales.

Your content strategy should be:

• 80% signals (what I notice, care about, experience)

• 20% clear offers and pathways

The 80% does the heavy lifting. It’s not “top of funnel” - it IS the funnel. It’s the recognition engine that makes people want to work with you before they even know what you do.

The 20% just gives them somewhere to go once recognition has already happened.

The companies still optimizing for “talking about our services” are trying to close before they’ve created recognition and resonance. They’re asking for the sale before they’ve offered proof of understanding.

The algorithm won’t reward that. Because audiences aren’t seeking solutions anymore they’re seeking recognition first, solutions second.

Give them the mirror. The business follows.

Interest Is the New Currency. Content Is a Placement Bid.

Stop thinking about content as “posts.” Start thinking about it a placement bids.

You’re not posting for likes. You’re bidding for algorithmic placement in someone’s identity ecosystem.

Each piece of content tells the algorithm: “This is what I care about, what I notice, what I value, how me to people who resonate here.” Content isn’t just visibility. It’s a vibrational proof of concept. It’s your frequency made visible.

The algorithm learns what creates intimate connections for each person. When your content triggers deep self-recognition in someone, you win the bid. You appear in their feed. You become part of their identity infrastructure.

Your niche isn’t what you do. Your niche is what you notice.

The companies are still asking “how do we talk about our services more effectively?” are optimizing for the wrong metric. The question is: “how do we signal clearly enough that the right people feel seen by us?”

Because interest is the gateway to intimacy. And intimacy is what creates the kind of loyalty that looks like addiction.

The Authenticity Debate: Or, What Even Is “Real” When You’re Competing Against Machines?

Let’s address the thing everyone’s anxious about but no one’s naming clearly: authenticity in the age of AI optimization.

Here’s the biggest concern: “If I use AI to optimize my language, won’t I lose my authentic voice?”

Here’s the truth: The output sounds noticeably AI because the input was distorted and unclear in the first place.

You’re worried about what other people think of you. How you can make THEM understand you (or not misunderstand you). But the point isn’t helping them understand you.

The point is helping them understand THEM (through creating a great projection surface.)

And you’re already competing against robots and AI that are matching audiences with intimacy-engineered language patterns. The algorithm itself is an intimacy engineer. It’s learning the exact words, cadence, pacing, and structure that creates recognition in each person.

So the question isn’t “should I optimize?”

The question is: “Who’s doing the optimizing? you, or someone else?”

Every Medium Is a Reduction

A phone screen can only give people a 3D experience of you. There are dimensions of your presence that people who don’t meet you in person will never experience:

• Your energetic presence in a room

• Your micro-expressions and timing

• Physical resonance, pheromones, spatial dynamics

Every medium is a filter. Text is a filter. Video is a filter. Even in-person conversation is a filter. You’re constantly choosing which thoughts to voice and which to keep internal.

So why do we treat AI optimization like it’s the authenticity apocalypse when we’ve always accepted every other form of compression?

What Actually Matters: Are You Telling Your Truth Clearly?

The real question isn’t “is this authentic?” It’s “does this sound like me saying what I actually mean?”

When you use AI to:

• Sharpen your language

• Remove verbal filler and hedging

• Structure your thoughts with more clarity

• Find the exact words that carry your meaning

You’re not losing yourself. You’re just removing the static between what you mean and what people hear.

Think of it like a radio frequency. Without optimization, it’s fuzzy, full of noise, hard to tune into. With optimization, it’s crystal clear — but it’s still you coming through.

The algorithm rewards optimized language patterns because optimized language creates intimate recognition faster. And recognition is what audiences are seeking.

The New Authentic: Consciously Engineered Truth

We’re entering an era where the most “authentic” creators will be the ones who:

• Understand they’re always compressing reality

• Choose to compress it well

• Use every available tool (including AI) to say what they mean clearly

• Stop pretending “raw” and “real” are the same thing

Raw isn’t more real. It’s just less refined.

Your shower thoughts aren’t more authentic than your thoughts after processing and reflection. They’re just less coherent. They’re harder to understand. They’re surrounded by static.

Think about it: A story you tell five minutes after it happens has already been edited by your brain. You’ve selected which details matter. You’ve shaped the narrative. You’ve chosen which emotions to emphasize.

That’s not less authentic. That’s just how human communication works.

But here’s what no one wants to admit: sometimes “raw” is just an excuse.

An excuse to not say the thing clearly. An excuse to stay comfortable. An excuse to avoid accountability.

When you keep your message vague, messy, “unprocessed” — you never have to fully commit to what you’re saying. You can always walk it back. You can always say “that’s not what I meant” or “you’re taking it out of context.”

Clarity forces ownership.

When AI helps you compress your rambling voice memo into a clear, sharp sentence — you can no longer hide behind verbal hedging. You have to stand behind what you actually mean.

And that’s uncomfortable. So people call it “inauthentic” instead of admitting they’re afraid to be clear.

Authenticity isn’t about being unfiltered. It’s about saying what you mean clearly enough that people can’t misunderstand you — and having the courage to stand behind it.

You’re not competing against other humans anymore. You’re competing against AI-generated content, algorithm-optimized language, and systematic intimacy engineering.

The choice is this: Let someone else’s AI optimize your category’s language patterns and take your audience... or use AI to amplify your voice, your ideas, your perspective — just clearer, sharper, more recognizable, and impossible to misunderstand.

The women who win the intimacy wars will be the ones who stop clutching “raw” like a security blanket and start wielding clarity like a weapon.

You have a Choice. Three Paths Forward

We’re at an inflection point. The old content models are dying. Mirror media is here. You have three options.

Path 1: Stay Human-Only (The Purist)
You rely entirely on your natural capacity for creating intimate connection. No AI assistance, no optimization tools. You post when inspired, edit minimally, keep it “raw.”

The problem is you’re limited by your own bandwidth. Your output is inconsistent. Your language patterns are unoptimized. You’re competing against creators who are optimizing and eventually, you lose market share to systematic intimacy engineering. The worst part is, most of them aren’t even HUMAN.

Path 2: Go Generic AI (The Automation Trap)
You hand your content creation over to AI completely. High volume, scheduled posts, template-based language, AI twins or faceless content.

Which means you lose your distinct frequency. You produce high-volume content that connects with no one specifically. You become noise. Algo food.

Path 3: Evolve to Intimacy Engineer (The Integration)
You understand that you’re always translating your signal through some medium. You choose to use every available tool, including AI to transmit that signal with maximum clarity and minimum distortion.

You maintain your authentic frequency while optimizing for intimate connection. You scale your natural recognition-creating abilities. You dominate your category through engineered soul-level understanding.

This is the path. It requires letting go of the false binary between “authentic” and “optimized.” It requires understanding that clarity is a form of care. It requires becoming fluent in both your own signal and the mechanics of how that signal creates recognition in others.

How to Build Recognition-Based Content. A Framework

This isn’t theoretical. Here’s what actually works right now.

1. Identify Your Recognition Triggers (Yours, Not Theirs)

Most people start with “what does my audience want?” Wrong question.

Start here with What are you genuinely curious about? What do you notice that others seem to miss? What patterns do you see? What stories do you keep coming back to?

Exercise:
List 10 things you care about that seem unrelated to your business. The algorithm is already picking them up.

2. Track Emotional Resonance, Not Just Engagement Metrics

Stop optimizing for likes. Start tracking:

• DMs that say “I feel so seen” or “how did you know?”

• Comments that say “this is literally me”

• Saves and shares (recognition, not entertainment)

• The specific language people use when they describe what you do

This is data. These are the recognition triggers you’re hitting. This reveals your actual offer.

Absolutely audit to look at your most popular posts then…

3. Use AI to Compress, Not Create

Your process should look like this:

• Voice memo your raw thoughts

• Let AI help structure and compress the language

• Read it out loud in your voice, with your intentions, emotions etc.

• Adjust until the rhythm, tone, and word choice match your natural cadence

• Publish

You’re not asking AI to create for you. You’re asking it to help you translate yourself more clearly.

4. Double Down

Feed the loop, take the comments and feedback and create more content on that interest and topic.

5. Let “This Is Literally Me” Become Your North Star

If your content makes people feel understood without having to explain themselves, you’ve created intimate recognition. That’s the game now.

When someone comments “this is exactly what I needed to hear” you didn’t teach them something new. You recognized them. You showed them they’re not alone in what they’re experiencing.

That’s mirror media. That’s the new currency.

The Intimacy Wars Are Here: What Happens Next

We are moving from:

• Social Selling → Mirroring

• Traditional Funnels → Frequencies

• Content Creation → Intimacy Engineering

• Audience Building → Identity Ecosystem Design

The old model:
Creator makes content → Audience consumes content → Engagement happens
Success = reach + engagement + conversion. The content was about the creator’s message.

The new model:
Audience → Data → AI → Creator+AI → Mirror → Audience → LOOPS BACK
Success = recognition + intimacy + identity addiction. Content is about the audience’s self-understanding.

The outcome is no longer just attention. It’s the gift of self-perception. That’s true intimacy. And intimacy, at scale, is the new wealth.

Here’s what I know like I know like I knowwww. The women who understand this shift aren’t just building audiences. They’re building identity infrastructures. They’re becoming the mirrors their people can’t look away from.

The companies that ignore this will keep bleeding market share to creators who accidentally understand it. The creators who resist optimization will lose to creators who use it strategically.

And the creators who evolve into intimacy engineers — who use every tool available to transmit their signal with maximum clarity — will dominate their categories for the next decade.

The intimacy wars are happening now. The question isn’t whether you’re going to play. The question is: are you engineering intimacy consciously, or are you letting someone else engineer it for your audience?

Mirror media isn’t coming. It’s here.

About Paige

Paige is an investor, advisor, futurist and CEO/Managing Partner at Imperatrix Holdings + Acquisitions whose specialties include growth (revenues and profits as well as behavior and leadership transformation).

Work With Paige:

To hire her privately for consulting or investment opportunities, click here.

To book her to speak to your company or at your event on the topics of mirror media and the future of marketing, intimacy engineering and AI-optimized content strategy, or leadership and behavior transformation: why emotional avoidance, discernment, and magnetism are no longer “inner work” but strategic imperatives, click here.

Honestly, I don't really remember a time when I didn't want to be wealthy and running things. My friends wanted to play house and I wanted to play a single CEO with a corner penthouse (eventually it evolved into playing a single CEO mom with a corner penthouse.)

When I told my Mother I wanted to be a social worker she told me it would destroy my huge heart and never pay me enough money to be happy (I have always had expensive taste even though my parents built dryers for a living. The money coming in didn't seem to have an effect on what I was attracted to.) When I told my Mother I wanted to be a Lawyer she told me it would be too much school for me (I, like most undiagnosed AuDHD kids had a hard time with school.)

Entrepreneurship seemed like the best of both worlds. A place where I could have command over my autonomy, save the world from the injustices I saw, make a real impact in the lives of people not like me and be able to afford the things I had always been attracted to. I didn't have to be a good girl. I didn't have to say the right thing, do things because others said they were "good" or because I "should." It was a place I could do what I truly desired and where I thought the righteous moral gatekeeping had gone to die.

IT did.

But not for the girlies. 💅🏻

My Rude Awakening

I thought entrepreneurship would be different for women. I thought we'd escaped the "good girl" trap and entered a meritocracy where results mattered more than perception.

I was wrong.

The language patterns were everywhere once I started paying attention. I remember working with our local economic developers on a community pride campaign, we were discussing where the funding would come from and how to position it to the Mayor. The men were very excited by the idea, they loved how quickly I was coming up with solutions and executing and that I had so much to say. They even told me my excitement and enthusiasm (which shows up in how I communicate) was what they were paying for.

Then… we get to the meeting where we are joined by other women in the community like the head of the business bureau and things of that nature. Here I was, the youngest woman in the room and the only one in her own business and sole breadwinner at the time. Like, goooooooo Feminism.

Do you know what the feedback was after?

"Paige sure had a lot to say."

Yeah bitch, because it was my idea, my project and my responsibility.

She was “she was too much.”

This wasn't an isolated incident. I started seeing it everywhere - women policing other women's energy, ambition, and success under the guise of "keeping them grounded." The same pattern showed up constantly in online business spaces:

"I don't trust anyone who makes it look that easy"

"That launch felt too aggressive"

"She's getting too big for her britches"

"I'm not impressed by those numbers"

Jealousy that someone was a little freer than they felt on the inside.

Same cage. Prettier bars.

Divine Intervention

I DON'T WANT TO BE GOOD.

I want to do what is correct according to who I was created to be. I am not in some competition with the boys or anyone other than the version of me who is living the vision I have for my life.

I remember being in prayer one night, on my knees in quiet (not so quiet) desperation. I kept saying something along the lines of "I am a good person, I am doing good things for other people, I work hard to help people." And God was CLEAR, "stop trying to do good. Stop violating other people's free will. Each person has their own path and tasks."

Ope okay. Uhhh. Easier said than done. But, I did.

It truly was from that moment forward I removed "good" from my vocabulary because of its incorrect association to a subjective set of moralistic rules. What I know is that we don't live in a morally sensitive universe, we live in a belief/knowing sensitive universe and that if I change what I believe and what I KNOW in my bones, I can be exactly who I was born to be.

Which is actually the design the directive btw.

In Aramaic (and Hebrew), the word often translated as “good” is טָב (ṭāḇ / tov). Its root meaning is not just “morally good” the way we think of it in English. It means pleasant, fitting, whole, complete, aligned, as it should be.

In other words, not lacking (which means not finding lack or brokenness in ourselves or in others) but seeing everyone as whole and complete and not needing saving (and it FOR SURE doesn't mean believing I am the person to save them.)

Which is why when I watch Alex Hormozi's 100M launch I was not watching a marketer, I was watching a man be exactly who he came here to be. I also watched women (it was mostly women but that could be because I am mostly surrounded by women) say they were "not impressed" by Hormozi's $100M or finding judgment in it.

I recognize the pattern. She's (general she) trying to "do good.” She's decided those "desperate" people need her protection from his "manipulation." She's violating their free will to choose what serves them.

But here's what she's really saying: "I know better than these adults what's good for them."

Oooof. It’s giving mommy.

That's a control mechanism which is exhausting and distracting from materializing what you're meant to on this planet. It's SO effective at oppression it makes me wonder if it wasn't part of the patriarchal plan in the first place?

The Snake Oil That Actually Works

How can it be snake oil if he implemented what he teaches and it worked? How is it snake oil if even just 1-2 of the people implement the same and get their desired result?

Snake oil = selling something that doesn't work

But Hormozi literally:

• Wrote the book outlining his methods

• Applied those exact methods to launch the book

• Generated $100M in 6 hours using his own system

• Proved the methodology works in real time, publicly

He could have failed BTW, hard. Publicly.

How many people are willing to take that risk?

Why would we rather ourselves and others stay where we are even if we are unhappy than learn from someone whose personality or methods we find “bad.” It still goes back to a discomfort with abudance, with TOO much, especially for women.

• TOO fast (scarcity: success should be slow and hard)

• TOO much money (scarcity: no one should have that much)

Wealth (goodwill, resources, connection and yes MONEY) comes from providing the most value to the community. Unequivocally Alex Hormozi provides an obscene amount of free value to the community. Whether you judge it as good or bad, others have spoken with their attention that THEY do find it valuable and therefore he gets value in return. That is not entitlement and it is not playing a zero sum game of "I win" and "you lose."

Biblical Women Weren't "Good Girls"

This obsession with being "good" isn't biblical anyway. When I actually study the women in scripture - the ones God chose to advance His purposes - they weren't sitting around worried about moral optics. They were strategic, resourceful, and yes, sometimes ruthless when the situation called for it.

Esther strategically positioned herself in the king's court, concealed her identity, and then manipulated palace politics to save her entire people. She threw lavish banquets, played on the king's ego, and orchestrated Haman's downfall with calculated precision. When the survival of the Jews was at stake, she didn't worry about being "too much" or whether her tactics were pure enough for the morality police.

Jael literally invited a military commander into her tent, gave him milk and a blanket to make him comfortable, waited for him to fall asleep, then drove a tent peg through his skull. The Bible doesn't call her manipulative or question her methods. IN FACT, it calls her "most blessed among women." She saw what needed to be done and did it without wringing her hands over whether it was "nice."

Tamar was denied her legal right to marriage and children by her father-in-law Judah, so she disguised herself as a prostitute and seduced him to get pregnant. When he tried to have her executed for immorality, she produced his personal items as proof of his hypocrisy. She refused to accept being cheated out of what was rightfully hers and used deception to secure her lineage - which became the line of King David and ultimately Jesus.

The Proverbs 31 woman wasn't sitting around being humble about money. She "considers a field and buys it," runs multiple businesses, trades with merchants, and "her trading is profitable." She's described as clothed in "strength and dignity" not meekness. She provides for her household through strategic business decisions, and her husband and children call her blessed because of her competence, not her compliance.

None of these women were worried about being "good girls." They were focused on being effective at what they were CALLED to do. It’s almost as if the way to do good and “save” people is to focus on your mission for advancement, NOT saving people.

Could you imagine if they sat around wondering what other people were going to think of what they were doing or the fact that it would be called selfish or bad by some people?

We have GOT to get over this if we want to see money in the hands of more women.

We have GOT to accept the gifts that are here for us in the form of men who have been given more opportunities than us by learning from them and taking the turnkey strategies and kingdoms they have built and handed to us so we can mold it in the way only a woman can.

THEY ARE HANDING IT TO US, it is no longer men keeping us from what is ours.

IT IS US.

Go Get Your Bag

The research is clear. Women reinvest wealth into their communities and children at exponentially higher rates than men. We KNOW what women do with money when they have it. The question isn't what we'll do with wealth, it's whether we'll stop sabotaging ourselves long enough to go get it.

Every minute spent critiquing Hormozi's methods is a minute NOT spent implementing them. Every ounce of energy used to police someone else's success is energy NOT directed toward building your own.

I mean, think about. Judgment and moral policing is so effective at oppression one might think it's a tactic of... the patriarchy. And that suspending judgment and releasing the need to morally police people might actually be a revolution.

What if the very women who think they're being feminist by critiquing male entrepreneurs are actually doing the patriarchy's work for them? Keeping themselves distracted from wealth-building. Preventing other women from learning. Maintaining the exact status quo where women stay broke while men accumulate resources.

The revolution isn't marching in the streets demanding men give us their wealth because “it’s not far” and “they cheated!.” It’s women who refuse to participate in the moral policing system that keeps us powerless in the first place.

At the end of his email (the one I got to confirm my order because YES of course I got the book. I made 4K ON the live stream by implementing what he taught) Alex signed it "be one of zero" - which is exactly what God wants for us. Not one of the crowd trying to be "good." Not one of the copies trying to fit someone else's mold of how we should show up.

Be the ONE of you. The only version of yourself that exists. Not the "good girl" version. Not the version that makes other people comfortable. Not the version that stays small so others don't feel threatened.

Be the ONE version of you that God created! Ambitious, strategic, unapologetic, and effective at what YOU were called to do.

Stop being the morality police. Start being the student.

Stop saying it's "too much." Start asking "how much more?"

Stop protecting adults from their own choices. Start focusing on your own results.

The world needs wealthy women. Not good girls who stay broke while maintaining the moral high ground.

Go. Get. Your. Bag. The. Matriarchy. Is. Waiting.

I was 28 years old, postpartum, my frontal lobe barely developed, and somehow I'd managed to build this "successful" company despite knowing deep down that I had to repeat my junior year of high school and dropped out halfway through my first semester of community college. Honestly, who the fuck did I think I was anyway? Going for it like I deserved to have it all.

The pressure was a slow suicide. The organs I didn't need for immediate survival slowly shut down while I walked around ready for the next fire to put out. I think any woman who had a business during what I call "Girl Boss 1.0" knows exactly what I'm talking about.

You know that fine print they forgot to mention in your $497 digital course on "How to Make Your First 10K"? It should have read: "You may have more money and the ability to make your own schedule within a system designed to oppress you, but you will NOT be free. And the minute you try to actually be free, you'll be ripped down from the cross you built by the very people whose 'you're such an inspiration!' comments put you there in the first place."

The cult of Girl Boss 1.0 sold us freedom and delivered a prison decorated with inspirational wall decals, rose gold planners, and the perfect "messy bun and coffee" aesthetic while we answered emails at 2 AM and pretended our anxiety was just "passion."

Girl Boss 1.0

I think despite the dramatic (but very true) opening, I am a proud original Girl Boss. I have friends who felt the term "Girl Boss" was devaluing and condescending, but considering the system we were building inside of was designed to intentionally exclude us and make it difficult for us to succeed, I wanted it to be VERY clear that I was, in fact, a "girl" winning.

And to be fair, "girl" was right, I was 28 and still very much one. Even becoming a mother couldn't speed up how quickly those parts of my brain developed; only time and life could make me a woman.

My first taste of girl bossery was my Mary Kay business. I was scouted while bartending and complimented into "owning" my own business. You won't find any MLM hate here. Very few people succeed at it, yes, but very few people succeed at a lot of things when they're built inside a hierarchical patriarchal system. Everything that exists within it takes the shape of a pyramid, with very little room at its pointed top.

Through that experience I discovered parts of myself I only COULD have through "owning" my own business and being completely responsible for my own success. I was (am) scrappy, resilient, charismatic, disciplined, ambitious and determined when I had a passion for something. We will learn later when we discuss Girl Boss 2.0 that those things are mislabeled as "masculine" traits but we aren't there yet and during Girl Boss 1.0 those terms didn't even exist.

What I know now that I didn't know then is that those traits were my greatest gifts and investing in them would bring me everything I could ever want but they would HAVE to be turned into weapons because there really was no other option. This was not a game designed for me to win, not in the sense that I actually enjoyed my life and wanted to live.

I could not have gone back and done things differently, because I didn't know then what I know now. Another choice doesn't exist, although the powers that be would prefer I feel guilty and shameful for not having known what I could not have known. But that is exactly how they keep us where they want us.

And I don't know about you, but I am not the kind of girl who ever does anything just because she's told to.

My scrappiness meant I solved every problem by myself, because building systems and asking for help was a weakness in a "prove yourself" culture. Because I was resilient, I kept pushing through red flags and warning signs that should have made me pause—"giving up" wasn't an option for a woman who had to work twice as hard.

My charm and charisma ensured I became the face of everything, making myself indispensable and creating a business that couldn't function without me constantly "on." I was ambitious, but I had to adopt linear growth models that demanded constant scaling, because that's what "real businesses" did.

Most devastatingly, my determination refused to let me quit even when the cost became my health, relationships, and sanity, because women who "give up" get labeled as not serious about business or worse, irresponsible for trying and not succeeding.

Here's what I understand now that I didn't then: those traits will always be weaponized inside of a dominator model of rule. As discussed in the Chalice and the Blade: A dominator model ranks humans in hierarchies and maintains those hierarchies through competition, control, and domination.

In this system, my scrappiness became isolation instead of resourcefulness. My resilience became self-destruction instead of strength. My charisma became performance instead of authentic connection. My ambition became linear scaling instead of sustainable growth. My determination became martyrdom instead of perseverance.

The system built to oppress me was still functioning like a well-oiled machine, no matter how perfect it looked on the outside—the success stories, the Forbes features, the conference stages, the "inspiration" posts about women breaking barriers while we quietly broke ourselves.

Enter Girl Boss 2.0.

Girl Boss 2.0

I can't quite pinpoint when it happened (but truthfully I believe I had a large impact on the fact it did) but at some point it became very, very dangerous to be a woman who "worked hard" and "hustled" her way into "freedom." It was no longer hot to be a Girl Boss 1.0, in fact you were kind of a demon that needed saged to death.

Instead of "hustle harder," it was "build your empire from your laptop." Instead of grinding until you broke, it was morning routines and manifestation journals. The new girl bosses weren't selling the grind, they were selling the dream…

Everything was suddenly inverted and we were all at war with one another while selling female empowerment. And who benefits from that, hmm?

What is wild is that perfectly wrapped gift? What's inside the wrapper is exactly the same.

The system hadn't changed. The game was still rigged. But now we were pitted against each other. The "old school" hustlers and ambitious women versus the new girls who supposedly made "$328,390,281 from her laptop in Bali." We were painted as the cautionary tale, the "what not to do," the reason why this new version was supposedly so much better.

Bell Hooks said "when culture is based on a dominator model, not only will it be violent, but it will frame all relationships as power struggles."

But because I had made such a name for myself during Girl Boss 1.0, something interesting happened. I started getting calls from the Girl Boss 2.0 women, behind the scenes, away from their perfectly curated feeds. They wanted coaching. They wanted to know how I had actually built something real.

And that's when I discovered the truth…the results were much worse.

At least during Girl Boss 1.0, we were honest about the grind. We knew we were sacrificing, but we owned it, we opted in. These new girl bosses were trying to maintain the illusion of ease while secretly working harder than we ever had. I'm talking phone calls before they even opened their eyes for the day. I actually had to get on the phone with one of their husbands to give coaching because she was too burnout and sick to handle it. They were performing the soft life while burning out faster, because now they had to hustle AND pretend they weren't hustling. Their entire brand depended on it.

The pressure wasn't just to succeed, it was to succeed effortlessly, beautifully, Instagrammably. They were drowning, but they had to look like they were walking on water, always on their way to "double last month's income" because they didn't actually know how to market or sell without that performance.

This is why the 20-30 year old founders who come to me for executive coaching are 10x more miserable than I ever was. At least I knew what I was signing up for (the grind, not the whole dying slowly inside thing).

So what happens when you're burnt out from the pressure of Girl Boss 1.0 AND Girl Boss 2.0? When you realize you traded the client boss for the algorithm boss?

You go get another boss, obvi.

Sourdough and Saviors

You’re tired from being the boss, holding the responsibility, you want to be daughtered. You want a prince charming who works in finance, 6’5, blue eyes. You decide you want to find a man who can provide for you, so you don't have SO much pressure and can just create whatever you want from your doughy soft center without thinking when he's around. Or maybe you pivot to "faith-based entrepreneurship," making Jesus your business partner and savior from "the toxic hustle culture." We're seeing a massive rise in "Christian" entrepreneurs right now, another obvious reactive response to an abusive system. Anything, ANYTHING other than you taking responsibility and ownership for you.

But here's the thing. Whether it's a husband or Jesus's salvation, inside of a patriarchal system you still have a boss and a dependency on, once again, something outside of you that is in the dominant position. You've gone from proving your worth through revenue to proving your worth through a curated cottage core aesthetics and trad wife content from your new homestead.

The performance never actually stops because it can't stop in a pyramid-shaped matrix where everyone is fighting for the same tiny slice of space at the top. The top may look different for every single one of us, but the belief that this is a zero sum game drives it all.

Ambitious women especially find a brief reprieve from the pressure before they start to become depressed and a shell of themselves. Aliveness is creativity, and an ambitious woman is here to create. She was born at such a time as this to lead us into the "third way," and she knows it deep, deep down.

As Audre Lorde said, “For the master’s tools will never dismantle the master’s house. They may allow us temporarily to beat him at his own game, but they will never enable us to bring about genuine change. And this fact is only threatening to those women who still define the master’s house as their only source of support.”

The only way to "win" is to step outside of it all together.

The Third Way

Here's what I have realized after coaching thousands of burnt-out Girl Boss 2.0s while still carrying my own Girl Boss 1.0 scars…the pendulum keeps swinging between extremes because we're still playing on the same playground, in the same stadium. We have to change the terrain completely.

We go from grinding ourselves into the ground to retreating into soft domesticity, from algorithm slavery to husband dependency but we're still operating inside the same model.

Today, we are stepping outside the dominator model entirely and building something that actually works for human beings, specifically, human beings with ovaries who bleed monthly and grow humans inside their bodies and have soft girly hearts that are too big for the boys to understand (and thank god for that.)

I'm not talking about sitting on a soft pillow waiting for results to fall into our laps, or relying on crystals and tarot cards to make our business decisions. I'm talking about something right in the middle. Where we do exactly what is required to be done, no more, no less unless we desire to give more freely. Where intuition brings us the answer and our logic makes it "make sense" when it's time to communicate it to others.

Where everyone we come into contact with is a partner, not a client or an employee, because we're all working toward the same goal of creating something that serves life. Where everything we do has value to the community baked right in, not as an afterthought, marketing strategy, benefit or matter of ethics but as the foundation of why we exist.

Where sufficiency is the bottom line. Not scarcity, not excess, but enough. Enough profit to sustain and grow, enough rest to regenerate, enough challenge to stay engaged, enough ease to actually enjoy the life we're building.

Your "competitors" become collaborators because there's enough abundance for everyone when we're not hoarding resources at the top of a pyramid. You share childcare with other founder moms, you refer clients to each other based on who's the best fit (not who's most desperate for revenue), and you actually take sabbaticals when your body demands it.

The Internal Revolution Comes First….

So why hasn't this happened yet? Well, you can imagine there aren't many people talking about what this looks like in-depth inside of capitalism because we haven't ever had the example or been truly supported to do it. I think if I start painting the picture, if we start collectively seeing the outcome and making internal revolutions and decisions in favor of it, you can't stop it. But you can't build matriarchal structures with patriarchal programming still running in your head. The revolution starts inside.

1. Deprogramming scarcity

Remember how you felt when another woman got the promotion/client/feature you wanted? That sick feeling in your stomach and the immediate "but I'm RIGHT? I'm BETTER?" The IMMEDIATE tearing down of the other woman. That's scarcity programming, and it's the most destructive weapon in the dominator model.

In matriarchal systems, her win IS your win because we're building together! We are actually not separate. We realize deeply that what we bring to someone else's doorstep, we bring to our own. We understand that if we see her doing it, it means it's not only a possibility for us, but it IS us. We stop playing the game like it's zero sum.

2. Redefining success

What if success looked like sleeping through the night, having energy for your kids, feeling excited about Monday mornings? What if it looked like your team members taking actual vacations without checking email? What if it measured regeneration instead of extraction?

I want you to think about the things that make you most miserable in your life right now. Experiencing the opposite of those would be success for you. Not what society has defined as success, but what it means to each of us individually. When we individually experience our own version of success, we help others find theirs—masks off. Competition with others (competition with self is different) has no utility when you realize that the person beside you is moving toward their own unique version of success, and it's not like yours. So there's no reason to compete, but there IS a reason to contribute and complement.

3. Trusting your cycles

Your business doesn't have to grow every single quarter. Your productivity doesn't have to be consistent every single day. Your energy has seasons, and fighting them makes you weaker, not stronger. Nature moves in seasons, and so do we.

The month I spent mostly offline after my breakdown? That's when I got the clarity that led to my biggest breakthrough, and my business was never the same.

Men have different, daily cycles, and the entirety of the corporate world is based around those cycles. You aren't wrong for wanting to rest. You aren't lazy for not "feeling like it" today. And things won't fall apart if you aren't working seven days a week. The world has convinced us that our natural rhythms are a flaw to overcome instead of a strength to honor. This has to happen internally first. We have to stop guilting and judging ourselves for it, before we can see that same shift in our reality. It might take time before we see the results but we will start to see more companies adopt this as it becomes illogical to do it any other way (based on results.)

4. Embracing interdependence

The "self-made woman" is a myth that almost killed me. Every successful woman I know has an invisible infrastructure of support—childcare, household help, emotional labor from friends, mentorship, and sometimes financial backing. Let's make that infrastructure visible and reciprocal instead of shameful and hidden.

You can be a self-sufficient woman (meaning you have what you need, more and more) when you come into any relationship. Interdependence means it's 100/100. You are bringing value to the table, not coming from a place of lack and need.

The dominator model thrives on codependency because it thrives on subjugation and hierarchies of power. When we are interdependent, you remove "need" from the equation and everyone is responsible for bringing their value to the table.

This looks like: I have a skill you need, you have a resource I could use. We exchange not because either of us is desperate, but because together we create something neither of us could build alone. No one is keeping score because everyone is contributing what they do best.

Now would be the time to evaluate and be honest with yourself. How much of an inner revolution needs to happen for you? You can see how opposite these are of the way things are done now and I am sure that can feel overwhelming or almost defeating because we don't see examples of how it is done.

It is extremely important that we continue to empower women to start their own businesses and become interdependent.

"In general, the best clue to a nation's growth and development potential is the status and role of women."

"Women's empowerment helps raise economic productivity and reduce infant mortality. It contributes to improved health and nutrition. It increases the chances of education for the next generation."

"When women gain a voice in society, there's evidence of less violence."

"When women gain control over spending, less family money is devoted to instant gratification and more for education and starting small businesses."

"It's no accident that the countries that have enjoyed an economic take off have been those that educated girls"

"You educate a boy, and you're educating an individual. You educate a girl, and you're educating a village." - Nicholas Kristof and Sheryl WuDunn, Half the Sky

Which would explain why our country is the way it is. Women-founded businesses are failing at a faster rate than others because of their own unique set of limitations that could be solved structurally.

Why Women's Businesses Fail More Often or Earlier (And How Matriarchy Fixes It)

Under-capitalization & Lack of Funding

Women receive only 2% of venture capital funding. Even in small business lending, women are less likely to be approved and receive smaller amounts at higher interest rates. Women often start businesses with less margin for error.

Remember when we talked about collective resource sharing? In matriarchal systems, we create rotating credit associations, community-supported businesses, and mutual aid networks. Instead of begging male-dominated VC firms for crumbs, we pool our resources and fund each other. We understand that her success IS our success, so investing in each other becomes logical, not charitable.

Invisible Labor & Burnout

Many women are managing unpaid domestic work on top of entrepreneurship, from caregiving to household management. This drains time, energy, and focus in a way that rarely gets acknowledged in business advice.

This is exactly why we need integrated life design and interdependent support systems. Instead of pretending we don't have periods, pregnancies, and aging parents, we build businesses that flow with life stages. We share childcare cooperatively, we create flexible work arrangements that honor our full humanity, and we stop trying to compete with men who have wives handling their invisible labor.

Perfectionism & Over-preparation

Women are more likely to delay launching, over-research, and wait to feel "ready," while men tend to start and figure it out as they go. This slows momentum and leads to frustration or stagnation.

This is scarcity programming telling us we have to be perfect to deserve success. In matriarchal systems, we launch imperfectly because we know our community will support us as we iterate. We don't have to have all the answers because we're building collaboratively, someone else in our network has the piece we're missing.

Imposter Syndrome & Underpricing

Women tend to undervalue their offers and undercharge, especially in service-based and coaching businesses. This leads to revenue plateaus, resentment, and unsustainable growth.

When we redefine success beyond just revenue and embrace our worth as inherent (not earned), pricing becomes about sustainability, not self-worth. We price for sufficiency. Enough to regenerate, enough to reinvest in community, enough to model that women's work has value. We also support each other in holding these boundaries instead of competing on price.

Isolation

Which is lack of community, mentorship, and visibility. Many female founders don't have access to high-level networks or strategic peers. Without this, it's easier to get stuck in survival mode, disconnected from higher-leverage opportunities. There are conversations men are having in their rooms that simply are not happening in ours.

This is the opposite of interdependence. In matriarchal business structures, isolation is impossible because we're building together by design. We create genuine partnerships, share resources, and understand that collaboration is more powerful than competition. We build the networks we need instead of waiting to be invited into theirs.

Cultural Messaging

Society's programming teaches women to be pleasing, perfect, and self-sacrificing, not bold, wealthy, and publicly ambitious. This plays out in branding, visibility, content, and sales energy. Women are more likely to tone themselves down and avoid bold positioning in order to keep connection and peace.

When we deprogram scarcity and trust our cycles, we show up authentically instead of performing what we think people want to see. We understand that our "soft girly hearts" aren't weaknesses to hide but strengths to leverage. We position boldly because we're not trying to fit into their game. We're creating our own.

The pattern is very clear. Every single reason women's businesses fail faster is because we're trying to succeed in systems designed to exclude us. But when we build matriarchal structures that honor our full humanity, these "failures" become strengths.

Honestly, it's not just women-led businesses that would benefit from these Matriarchal Models. Corporations spend $4,000-$21,000 per employee to combat and overcome burnout when the Matriarchal Models and systems prevent it in the first place.

So it turns out everything we have been trying not to be or have been told is a weakness is actually the key to sustainable success? In theory yes, but does it work in practice?...

Yes.

Companies are already doing this, they're just not calling it what it is.

Gesler uses The "constellation model" and it emphasizes collaborative decision-making over top-down management, intentionally de-centering traditional hierarchy and valuing shared leadership. This isn't some theoretical framework—organizations are using it right now to balance chaos and order, energy and structure.

SAS Institute in Cary, NC started providing on-site daycare in 1980 to keep an employee who had planned to leave her job to care for her child at home. They now provide competitively priced, on-site summer camps for school-age children and subsidized childcare—a broad integrated caregiving ecosystem that understands women don't exist in a vacuum.

WL Gore, Semco, and Haier operate with workplace democracy and horizontal governance. These are models of implicit matriarchal infrastructure, even if they don't call themselves that.

These companies attract top talent, decrease burnout, and reduce the cost of employee churn because they're working WITH human nature instead of against it.

But how does this translate to the attention economy and the "Girl Boss" sphere where the rate of female founders is exploding? How do we build or restructure our small businesses to truly represent the third way?

It's crucial that we understand this and paint the picture because everything is changing in the structural fabric of our systems. We're in the middle of a massive wealth transfer, and we'll be looking for leaders. Since 2024, I've seen so many women set out with a dream only to end up back where they started because they weren't aware of the work it would take OR they were doing more work than necessary.

If we can pinpoint the makings of the third way and start implementing it in our small businesses (which IS the future, with larger corps breaking into smaller organizations and more freelancers) we can change the trajectory of the world. I know that sounds dramatic, and I am, please never forget.

And it's possible. It's already happening; it just needs to be named and owned.

Rewriting the Operating System of Business Itself

This isn't just about being "nicer" (ew) or more collaborative. This is about fundamentally changing the foundational principles that business has operated on for centuries. It's a complete paradigm shift. Here's how it looks when we flip some of the most dominator model business principles…

Maximize Shareholder Value ➞ Optimize for All Stakeholders

In my coaching business, "success" isn't measured by how much I can charge or how many clients I can pack into my calendar. It isn't measured by hitting the next income goal month after month. For what!? It's measured by whether my clients create lasting transformation, whether my referral partners thrive, whether my business model allows other coaches to succeed too.

I deliberately cap my 1:1 spots not to create false scarcity, but to ensure quality. And after the first 60 days, clients can stay with the company and grow in different areas for a membership fee that they can cancel at any time. This isn't about trapping people in contracts or maximizing lifetime value, it's about creating a sustainable ecosystem where transformation can actually happen.

Scarcity-Based Competition ➞ Abundance-Based Collaboration

Girl Boss 1.0 and 2.0 both operated on the assumption that there's only so much success to go around. If she gets the speaking gig, I don't. If she launches first, my idea is worthless. The third way operates on understanding that when she succeeds, the entire ecosystem gets stronger.

I actively promote other coaches' programs when they're better fits for my audience. I curate and share others' content because there are more eyeballs than there are media. I'm building trust and creating a vibe (I also didn't have to use my own energy to create from scratch) and the other creator gets their work shared. We all win. I share my frameworks openly because lifting the entire industry serves everyone.

Linear Growth at All Costs ➞ Cyclical, Sustainable Regeneration

Traditional business demands consistent monthly revenue. Launch every quarter, always be selling, scale or die. The third way understands that sustainable systems have seasons. My business has intensive periods where I'm launching and teaching, followed by integration periods where I'm creating and resting. Instead of forcing myself to show up at 100% year-round, I design deep-impact containers with natural rest built in. My clients get better results because I'm not burned out. My content is stronger because I have time to think and live, creating depth and intimacy.

Efficiency Through Exploitation ➞ Sustainability Through Regeneration

I saw this a lot with male counterparts. They would bring in top talent that just wanted to be associated with them and then pay them very little, while also "mentoring" them (which is traditionally how it's been done…no hate, no shade). Traditional business gets efficient by automating everything, paying contractors as little as possible, and extracting maximum value from every team member and audience interaction. The opposite of extraction is regeneration—a system that gives back more than it takes.

With the third way, you pay people what their contribution is actually worth and share profits with those who helped create them. You reinvest in the community that supports your business, ensuring your success creates opportunities for others. Your content genuinely serves people rather than just driving engagement. You curate valuable resources instead of demanding all eyeballs on you, build genuine relationships instead of just growing follower counts, and contribute to conversations instead of dominating them. The result is an ecosystem where everyone who touches your business leaves more resourced than when they arrived.

Professional/Personal Separation ➞ Integrated Life Design

Girl Boss 1.0 and 2.0 both tried to pretend we could separate our business selves from our human selves. There's CEO/Founder, and then there's Mother (or whatever else you identify as outside of your business). Post consistently regardless of what's happening in your life. Never let personal struggles affect your professional image.

The third way integrates everything. When I'm processing grief, I might share about resilience. When I'm in a creative flow, I launch spontaneous offerings. When I need rest, I communicate that to my audience instead of forcing content that feels flat.

When we have these disjointed or compartmentalized identities, I actually believe it creates an enmeshment between the two. We start to Mother inside our business as well as our home, when if we simply stepped into the integrated archetype of "The Matriarch" for both, we would be much stronger, stable, and sustained.

The Matriarch is always that. She leads with the same wisdom whether she's in a board meeting or at the dinner table. She makes decisions based on what serves the whole system (her family, her team, her community.) She's nurturing AND strategic, intuitive AND decisive. She sets boundaries that protect everyone's wellbeing, not just her own. She builds legacy, not just quarterly results. She understands that true power comes from creating conditions where everyone can thrive, and she shows up with that power in every area of her life.

Her children see her on calls in between family outings. They understand that their mother is important to other people as well and that she is concerned for all in her sphere, not just them. In fact, she raises kids who also consider the community in their decisions and choices in life. There is no separation.

The traditional model asks: "How can I win?" The matriarchal model asks: "How can we all thrive?"

It Starts With You.

The third way isn't just a business model. It's a reclamation. A reclamation of our power, our cycles, our relationships, our definition of success. It's a reclamation of the original design (God created PARTNERS, who brought an equal yoking of value to each other and the garden until a hierarchy/dominator model was introduced in the form of an apple.) It's saying "no" to the pyramid and "yes" to the web. It's choosing regeneration (multiplication) over extraction, collaboration over competition, integration over compartmentalization.

And here's what I know for sure: you're already doing pieces of this. You're already questioning the endless growth demands. You're already craving real relationships over follower counts. You're already tired of performing with "3 tips to grow on IG" while feeling empty inside.

The revolution isn't coming babe.

it's already here.

It's happening in every conversation where women choose transparency over performance and don't over-explain. It's happening in every business decision that prioritizes sustainability over scale and people over profits. It's happening every time we celebrate another woman's win as if it's happening to us instead of comparing ourselves to her highlight reel and grading ourselves as "right" or "wrong." It’s happening every time a woman is compensated for creating value in the form of being herself and giving of that on social media.

Your part? Start where you are.

Choose one matriarchal principle and implement it this week. Maybe it's reaching out to a "competitor" to explore collaboration. Maybe it's honoring your energy cycles instead of forcing productivity. Maybe it's getting clear on what you ACTUALLY want outside of what you're told you need to want, redefining what success means to you instead of chasing someone else's metrics.

The woman reading this right now…you're not broken for wanting something different. And if what you have done up to this point has worked but suddenly stopped, maybe it's because you're not just here to reject the dominator model. You're here to lead what's next. You're exactly who we need to lead us into the third way. Not by playing their game better, but by creating an entirely new game where everyone gets to win.

The matriarchy isn't coming. It's here. And it starts with you.

Every month I take on 5, 1:1 coaching clients who are ready to install these new systems internally and externally, as well as consult with larger corporations to work with their leadership teams to do the same. Book Your Strategy Session Here. *Note* we don’t pitch on these calls because we are selective and also because we don’t chase sales, you’ll have to ask us how we can support you in implementing these systems.

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I went to comment “Great job, Mom.” For salvaging the morning. For singlehandedly managing the family calendar (along with a thousand other invisible tasks, most likley). But was stopped, absolutely gagged when I saw the comments.

“Makeup? For a 9am soccer game?”
“I’d show up busted.”
“Who are you trying to impress?”

As if not looking as chaotic as you feel is some kind of moral failure. As if showing up pulled together means you’re vain, shallow, or worse, performative. We see this everywhere women show up ordered and put together in a place she is “supposed” to appear chaotic. Makeup during childbirth? Try-hard. Mascara at the gym? Insecure.

We’ve been sold the lie that righteous women don’t care about how they look, as if mess equals depth and effort equals artifice. We need to be so clear, that framing didn’t come from anyone that understood, respected or understood women. It comes directly from the system and the spawn of that system, meant to subjugate and invert the natural design of things.

Why is it, in the most oppressive religions and authoritarian cultures, women wear no makeup, identical braids, and shapeless uniforms? Because men know what beauty does.

They understand it as power and they fear what would happen if women fully owned it. So they have conceived that spending time on it will cost you their provision, their love, their respect.

When it is reality the ROI on being attractive is unquantifiable. Investing in your beauty and being the most attractive version of yourself would mean persuasion, which would mean authority which would mean power and with that power, freedom.

“It’s just a tiktok, it’s not that deep.”

It always fucking is.

The Feminine Universe

In her book The Feminine Universe (one of my best-kept secrets), Miss Alice Lucy Trent dives deep into the ancient wisdom of the feminine and most importantly, reminds us that the feminine perspective existed “long before the patriarchy was ever thought of, and will exist when it’s long forgotten.”

In order to see beauty and attractiveness for what it really is, we have to step outside of the patriarchal lense to get context.

In it, she discusses beauty not as subjective or superficial, but as a reflection of the Light, part of a cosmic spectrum from Order to Chaos.

“The Greek word for order is kosmos— the term for the universe itself, as opposed to chaos. And our word cosmetics comes from that same kosmos, because order and beauty are the same thing.”

The desire for order and beauty, the desire to be attractive, is not shallow. It is the pursuit of the Light.

In a footnote, she extends this idea to personal appearance:

“It is for that reason that the cultivation of beauty in our lives is of fundamental importance, while the cultivation of ugliness or disorder in dress and personal appearance (as well as in art, design and other spheres) is a dark ritual of the Tamasic period and must be resisted.

It is sometimes asked: ‘What of those who have the misfortune to be personally unattractive?’ But personal ill-favoredness is merely an accident of the world of flux.

The plain maid who makes herself as neat and beautiful as she can be is acting in conformity with the Light.

The well-favored maid who conforms to Tamasic fashions of ugliness and absurdity invokes the darkness.”

It is no mistake that even the people with the worst personality, who put themselves together well receive more opportunities than others, despite others being “good people” and that is because we understand deep down that beauty and light are the same thing.

So why wouldn’t we make our beauty and attractiveness a priority if it gives more than it takes (restores, if you will.)

Perhaps we’ve been conditioned by a society that has extraction baked into its bones and because we’ve internalized that logic, we’ve learned to extract from ourselves. To shrink, to dim, to appease all in hopes of earning favor from some man, whether he lives in the sky or our beds.

Ironically, we’re told that by investing in our beauty (by prioritizing our appearance) we’re feeding into patriarchal standards in a world that rewards hotness.

But we rarely stop to ask why beauty holds so much power in the first place.

Or who benefits when women disown it.

That line of thinking — the idea that beauty is a “depreciating asset,” that it isn’t spiritual or emotional, that it doesn’t count — is patriarchal to its core. Very little to extract from a depreciating asset, yeah?

We have to ask ourselves who benefits from us believing that making money because we are attractive or being hired by men or god forbid holding some advantage in male dominated spaces, isn’t “good.”

Being less attractive might make you more "respectable" but to who, exactly?

If you're still measuring your worth through patriarchal standards, then yes, moral superiority, self-denial, and aesthetic disinterest will earn you points... with the very systems designed to keep you small.

But let’s be very clear here, while it might make you seem more righteous, it will absolutely make your life harder.

Beauty makes things easier with access, power, and opportunity light brings. It restores.

I don’t have all the answers. My thoughts on this evolve daily. But what I do know is this: the distortion of beauty, the shame around cosmetics, the framing of order as vanity, it’s all manufactured. And it is undeniably… chaotic and dark.

So if nothing else, you’ll always find me cultivating beauty and order in my spaces, in my choices, and on my face. Bringing light. Blessing every room I walk into, even the soccer field at 9 AM, put together and face beat to the godddddssss.

***

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